[bluecalm]

Olympiad 2004.

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1 trick: T♥, J♥, Q♥, A♥
2 trick: J♠, 4♠, 2♠, A♠

Assuming you play natural s/p in trumps what does partner's signal shows ?
What does partner's trump signal shows in your favorite methods ?

What do you play ?

[MickyB]

Difficult defensive problem IMO...just goes to show that even world class defenders need to be allowed to see the dummy

[bluecalm]

MickyB, on 2011-March-24, 10:14, said:

Difficult defensive problem IMO...just goes to show that even world class defenders need to be allowed to see the dummy

Thanks. Corrected now.

[wank]

it shows partner might have a singleton, 43 doubleton or any other doubleton and that perhaps I should have ducked the trump so I would know which of those it was.

[mfa1010]

I can't spot the problem. Partner has ♥Tx - declarer is 6-4 in the majors. So we win and play ♦K and hope for 6-4-3-0 and a ruff. What else? That partner has ♠Kx and declarer is about to get 3 spade losers. Not realistic. Partner will discourage on ♦K if he had the unlikely singleton heart.

[gnasher]

mfa1010, on 2011-March-24, 11:33, said:

I can't spot the problem. Partner has ♥Tx - declarer is 6-4 in the majors. So we win and play ♦K and hope for 6-4-3-0 and a ruff. What else?

I can't see anything else to play for, though it does mean partner has led ♥10 from xx 10x K?xxx xxxx. A heart would have been my fourth choice from that hand.

That's a good reason not to duck the spade - if we do, declarer might now cross to a heart, throw a diamond on a club, and lead a spade.

[hatchett]

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though it does mean partner has led ♥10 from xx 10x K?xxx xxxx. A heart would have been my fourth choice from that hand

Assuming there is a ♦A in the pack, that might at least promote his choice of lead to third in your ranking.

[inquiry]

First, the spade might be partner's only spade. After all West could be 7=4 in the majors, and in fact might be because if he was 6=5 he would have introduced or checked for heart fit.

Second if it is a signal (ie parnter has two spades), it could be low from something like 54 doubleton or high from 43 doubleton. So it is hyper critical to blame anyone for not getting whatever signal partner is trying to convey (if any) with the ♠4 play. So while a high-low trump signal would assure something useful in a higher suit (persumably diamonds), but the normal low-high is EITHER something in the lower suit, or i had to play some card (neutral).

My assumption -- and maybe the bidding meant something other than what it sounds like -- is that partner has lead the ♥10 from 10-x doubleton, and West is either 6=4-(3) or 7=4-(2). So, perhaps partner was despirately trying to signal for a diamond from 43 doubleton. If partner has the Ace of diamonds, and if West is precisely 6=4=2=1 we can win the spade ACE and two diamonds, but that looks like the end of the road. If West is 6=4=3=0 he made a mistake not winning the ♥ in dummy and discarding a diamond on the ♣A (he might have JTx of diamonds and not been worried about losing two diamonds).

Since I want to try to defeat this, I guess I am going to win the ACE and try ♦K and a ♦. Partner might not be able to read this as a doubleton if West has three, but it what i would do. It has VERY little to do with the size of spade partner played.

At matchpoints I would consider going passive with win the ACE of spades and return a heart

[gnasher]

hatchett, on 2011-March-24, 14:45, said:

Assuming there is a ♦A in the pack, that might at least promote his choice of lead to third in your ranking.

[gnasher]

inquiry, on 2011-March-24, 15:59, said:

If West is 6=4=3=0 he made a mistake not winning the ♥ in dummy and discarding a diamond on the ♣A

Winning ♥K at trick one doesn't work. If he plays trumps after ♣A, he loses two diamonds, a trump and ♥Q. If he runs ♥J, he loses two diamonds, a trump and a heart ruff.

[bluecalm]

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, but the normal low-high is EITHER something in the lower suit, or i had to play some card (neutral).

I don't know why everybody is saying this. That may be good rule of thumb for beginners but for serious partnership it couldn't possibly be that lower ranked suit is always more difficult to give signal in.
There should always be rules about which suit is important and to which suit signal is always true and to which could be "I don't want to signal anything partner".

I am not saying Nunes didn't get that hand because of spade spot. I am wondering what spade spot should show. Should be suit preference for hearts ? (I am ruffing, not ruffing), should be suipt preference for diamonds (I have A/K♦ or I don't have it) or should it be something else.
Maybe the hand is perfectly solvable without any signals after that bidding. That's another story.

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be because if he was 6=5 he would have introduced or checked for heart fit.

No point in doing so if spades are KQJxxx and hearts A7xxx. I mean, maybe there is a point but many players (the "bashers") wouldn't bother.
If you don't believe in 6-5 in majors in declarer hand think about the problem asssuming we have one more heart. Do we play for heart ruff now or for diamond ruff and how partner's signal in trump is going to help us with that (it's safe to assume he has 2 spades, as he would lead from xx in hearts holding stiff trump supposedly, especially having safe club lead on the side (we know he has xx(+)).

[gnasher]

With that dummy, it seems obvious to me that partner's signals are:
- High spade = heart ruff or no top diamond
- Low spade = a top diamond and no heart ruff.


On the actual hand, I don't think 6=5=2=0 is likely, because now declarer really has misplayed by not playing ♥K, ♣A. As mfa said, however, if that's the layout partner will discourage on ♦K.

[Free]

With 6-5 I think LHO would give opener a choice, so I rather think he has 6-7♠s from KQJ (otherwise partner would've covered) and ♥A. With another Ace, he might look for more than just game, so perhaps partner has ♦A. I'd lead ♦K now.

[bluecalm]

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- High spade = heart ruff or no top diamond
- Low spade = a top diamond and no heart ruff.

And what if he doesn't have either but has trump tricks ? Not at all likely on this layout because we have ATx of spades but I am thinking about general principles.

The problem seems too easy judging from the answers. Nunes played the heart back and as partner had Axxxx♦ and Tx♥ it wasn't successful play.

[gnasher]

bluecalm, on 2011-March-25, 06:24, said:

And what if he doesn't have either but has trump tricks ? Not at all likely on this layout because we have ATx of spades but I am thinking about general principles.

He plays a high one, to say "don't switch to your unsupported ♦K".

It's problematic to extract general principles from a single deal. There are a lot of different situations - sometimes there are three suits to choose between and sometimes only two; sometimes a passive defence is an option and sometimes it isn't; sometimes the signal is between an active and a passive defence, and sometimes it's between two active defences.

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The problem seems too easy judging from the answers. Nunes played the heart back and as partner had Axxxx♦ and Tx♥ it wasn't successful play.

Maybe he was absolutely certain that his partner wouldn't lead from a doubleton ten? If declarer has KQJxxx Axxxx A x, ♦K costs an unnecessary overtrick.

Or maybe he just made a mistake. Even world class players do that from time to time.

This post has been edited by gnasher: 2011-March-25, 09:38

[mfa1010]

A general principle could be: If a ruff is perhabs possible, then high-low in trumps is asking for the ruff. If not, then lavinthal is used instead.

[mfa1010]

gnasher, on 2011-March-25, 09:33, said:

Or maybe he just made a mistake. Even world class players do that from time to time.

Skip the "maybe", gnasher. You are too polite.

[inquiry]

What spades did partner have besides the ♠4?

[bluecalm]

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I would think playing high spade here should show A/K ♦ according to general principle that we give s/p in the remaining suits (not led suit and not trumps) and lavi to more important suit (ie. suit of probable/obvious shift) should be always real signal.

[FrancesHinden]

I agree with gnasher that - if he is able to give a sp signal at all - that on this hand it is between hearts (I have a singleton or not) and one of the other suits. The suit led is only excluded if the layout is already known.