[manudude03]

How do you show something like AQx x AQJ KQJxxx?

[mike777]

manudude03, on 2011-March-18, 14:27, said:

How do you show something like AQx x AQJ KQJxxx?

pretty easy one:



1c!=1d(say for sake of discussion or whatever)
3c!


3c=unbal hand....18-20 or so without a 4card major, not forcing.

----------

btw:
1c=1d
2c would be akin to a standard strong 2c opening bid.

btw2

2nt! opening would be around 14+-17 one suited in clubs.

[manudude03]

Maybe I've missed something, but it says 1C is limited to 15 HCP. I guess what I mean is how to show any strong, but "soft" hand in general. I was referring to the GaLwood system, not Simple Club.

[chasetb]

Your new system is starting to shape up to look a lot like Romex. The problem is that your 1NT forcing opening (which is allowed and is GCC legal) is too restrictive - some hands like the one reply get shunted out because they don't fit. I posted a link to a summary of Romex below - if you want more, Baron Barclay is having a deal on Rosenkranz/Alder books (where the Romex system is described).

manudude03, on 2011-March-18, 14:27, said:

How do you show something like AQx x AQJ KQJxxx?

Using Romex, 2♣ is 0-5, and you could stop at the 2-level with this hand (I count the x as a control since I like my Club suit). Bids 3♣ and below are artificial and show HCP, controls, and cover cards, and above that show some specific hand type.

http://www.bridgewit...stems/Romex.txt

[mike777]

I am not sure but in one case on the site it seems to say 1c is limited to 17 Gal points but in another section it says you can open 1c with 24 Gal points.

http://galwood.com/galwood_08_005.htm

---


but here it says you cannot open 1c with more than a 5 card suit.


http://galwood.com/galwood_08_004.htm

-------

but here it seems to say 1c can be 5+


1N (18-22 HCP + BP only!) STRONG opening bid which GUARANTEES 5/8 top cards (5 aces and kings combined), and probably fairly even distribution.

This bid replaces the traditional strong 2C and 2N opening bids, thus allowing all two level bids to be natural as well as the uses of more advanced conventions.

This bid pretty much guarantees knowing what the partnership has, not only in HCP, but also in finding any fit. With a 5+ suit, opener should use the 1C bid and then jump shift

[glen]

fazzzoola, on 2011-March-18, 05:58, said:

the idea being to have a well documented system which novices and intermediates can follow (i.e. book sales ...

Note that book sales of new fangled systems, regardless of the target market (novices, intermediates, advanced, experts, or everybody) are almost always very poor. The only exceptions have been systems that have had notable successes at the top levels, and this involved bridge professionals/bridge business people playing the systems. For example while the Precision books sold very well, C.C. Wei's expenses for the bridge pros to play versions of the system were far more than the revenue streams. Abandon all hope of making any money from bridge book sales.

[fazzzoola]

mike777, on 2011-March-18, 15:19, said:

I am not sure but in one case on the site it seems to say 1c is limited to 17 Gal points but in another section it says you can open 1c with 24 Gal points.

http://galwood.com/galwood_08_005.htm

---


but here it says you cannot open 1c with more than a 5 card suit.


http://galwood.com/galwood_08_004.htm

-------




but here it seems to say 1c can be 5+


1N (18-22 HCP + BP only!) STRONG opening bid which GUARANTEES 5/8 top cards (5 aces and kings combined), and probably fairly even distribution.

This bid replaces the traditional strong 2C and 2N opening bids, thus allowing all two level bids to be natural as well as the uses of more advanced conventions.

This bid pretty much guarantees knowing what the partnership has, not only in HCP, but also in finding any fit. With a 5+ suit, opener should use the 1C bid and then jump shift

========================

OK, time to clear up a bit of confusion. The web site, has the current basics... Due to lots of "critiquing", I proposed a new structure, here, in this discussion forum, not reflected on the web site, which offloads much from the 1C opening, and restructured the opening bids, so that 1C would be used for even distribution (i.e. no 5 card suit, except for the club suit if the dist is 5-3-3-2 - treating that one specific shape as a 4 card suit. 50% of the "normal" hands would start out w/ 1C. Then, I proposed to lump together all 5-5 and 5-4 shapes into the 1D/1H/1S opening bids. That accounts for roughly 29% of randomly dealt hands. Then, I used the 2C/2D/2H/2S bids to show a 6+ suit with a good possibility of a 4 card side suit. That accounts for roughly 28% of randomly dealt hands. (Of course, I realize that tournament hands are often "staged", thereby skewing the statistics away from the 1C opening bids.)

[fazzzoola]

Maybe I should clear up some "fog". When my partner and I started this "project" in Nov 2005, it was not our intention to build a system with a huge number of complexities beyond the abilities of intermediates.

However, I've come to realize that this project is going to have to be in two parts: Part A, the simpler part, which novices and intermediates can use effectively and fairly straightforwardly, documenting reaasons for bids and responses and part B, the much more complex part, which experts and above can use effectively.

In essence, the basic system has to have pretty fair completeness for the lower level players (like myself) as well as ease of use and learning, all the while, lending itself to the necessary modifications for successful use by experts and above (like yourselves). Being almost 65 years old, I doubt I can become an expert. So, I need some expert(s) to provide some general guidance and feedback for the basic system, and then go on from there and make the necessary adjustments for serious and expert players. I am definitely lacking in advanced techniques and knowledge. However, I am willing to do the necessary work in documenting the updgrades. I just need the direction and guidance from onr or two experts.

Thanks.

[mike777]

you can clear up alot of fog.....just tell me what the heck 1c is in full.
after many many days I still have no idea what 1c is.


You keep talking about dist/crap which is nothing.

[fazzzoola]

mike777, on 2011-March-19, 03:11, said:

you can clear up alot of fog.....just tell me what the heck 1c is in full.
after many many days I still have no idea what 1c is.


You keep talking about dist/crap which is nothing.

1C opening bid, on the web site:
13-17 points - when the opener has only one suit which is at most 5 cards long with 5-4-4-0, 5-4-3-1, 5-4-2-2, 5-3-3-2, 4-4-4-1, 4-4-3-2, or 4-3-3-3 distribution; (that structure meant that 1C would probably be used 75% of the time.)

According to several people, that was an overload. So, to scale it back, I proposed 1C to mean:
12-15 points - when opener has 5-3-3-2 (15.2%), 4-4-3-2 (21.5%), 4-3-3-3 (10.5%), or 4-4-4-1 (3.0%) distribution – 50.2% of all hands. This proposal was made only on this forum - it is NOT posted on the web site.

[manudude03]

You still haven't answered how you propose to handle the big hands without a lot of A/Ks, like my example before AQx x AQJ KQJxxx. If that's a 1C opener, then your range isn't 13-17. I could make it worse and say AKQ x AQJ AQJTxx, a 23 count, but only 4 A/Ks.

[fazzzoola]

glen, on 2011-March-18, 17:36, said:

Note that book sales of new fangled systems, regardless of the target market (novices, intermediates, advanced, experts, or everybody) are almost always very poor. The only exceptions have been systems that have had notable successes at the top levels, and this involved bridge professionals/bridge business people playing the systems. For example while the Precision books sold very well, C.C. Wei's expenses for the bridge pros to play versions of the system were far more than the revenue streams. Abandon all hope of making any money from bridge book sales.

=============

Thanks for the comforting thoughts... In any case, I have no illusion about book sales... LOL

[glen]

For your proposal, is the 1♣ opening either:

fazzzoola, on 2011-March-18, 05:58, said:

LOL...

Anyway, these are my proposed opening bids:

1C (12-15 points)

Opener either has exactly 5 clubs with 5-3-3-2 distribution, or has no 5+ suit. This bid is forcing for one round.

Odds of randomly getting:
5-3-3-2 distribution = 15.5%,
4-4-4-1 distribution = 3.0%
4-4-3-2 distribution = 21.5%,
4-3-3-3 distribution = 10.5%. (51.0% of all hands.)

or

fazzzoola, on 2011-March-19, 06:16, said:

I proposed 1C to mean:
12-15 points - when opener has 5-3-3-2 (15.2%), 4-4-3-2 (21.5%), 4-3-3-3 (10.5%), or 4-4-4-1 (3.0%) distribution – 50.2% of all hands.

[chasetb]

Glen, why did you have to be so rude as well as lazy? If you spent just a minute doing a search or two on the internet, you would KNOW the answer to that question, and wouldn't have wasted so much space on this thread with rehashed information. The percentages are off, the correct ones are:
21.6% (any 4432)
15.5% (any 5332)
10.5% (any 4333)
03.0% (any 4441)
50.6%

http://www.bridgehan...istribution.htm

[glen]

chasetb, on 2011-March-19, 11:47, said:

Glen, why did you have to be so rude as well as lazy? If you spent just a minute doing a search or two on the internet, you would KNOW the answer to that question, and wouldn't have wasted so much space on this thread with rehashed information. The percentages are off, the correct ones are:
21.6% (any 4432)
15.5% (any 5332)
10.5% (any 4333)
03.0% (any 4441)
50.6%

However if you were not "so rude as well as lazy", you would KNOW that the rehashed "Opener either has exactly 5 clubs with 5-3-3-2 distribution, or has no 5+ suit" is not the same as your rehashed "any 5332".

[fazzzoola]

manudude03, on 2011-March-19, 06:23, said:

You still haven't answered how you propose to handle the big hands without a lot of A/Ks, like my example before AQx x AQJ KQJxxx. If that's a 1C opener, then your range isn't 13-17. I could make it worse and say AKQ x AQJ AQJTxx, a 23 count, but only 4 A/Ks.

================

Sorry, I see your question now.

I would propose a strong NT 2nd round bid by opener, like 1D - 1H; 1NT, 15-19 HCP, with any A/K combinations, and 2NT showing 4 aces/kings with 20-24 HCP. Also, a jump shift, like 1C -1H; 2S (18-22 points, 6+ HCP in honors and a 5 card suit) or 1C - 1H; 3S (21-25 pts, a 5 card suit, and 7+ points in honors. This would fall under the category of a 2 bid requirement by opener. Since the 1C bid is forcing for one round, opener's second round bid is assured and should provide a rather clear picture. Responder already knows that 1C promises AT MOST ONE 5 card suit, the rebid confirms which suit it is, as well as the actual strength of the suit specifically, and of the hand in general, i.e., 5-3-3-2 shape where opener can have only 1 distribution point.

Does that sound reasonable?

[fazzzoola]

glen, on 2011-March-19, 11:52, said:

However if you were not "so rude as well as lazy", you would KNOW that the rehashed "Opener either has exactly 5 clubs with 5-3-3-2 distribution, or has no 5+ suit" is not the same as your rehashed "any 5332".

================

I have to admit a slight revision here. It dawned on me that the 5-3-3-2 shape must be allowed to be any suit, not just clubs. As this discussion is evolving, it is causing changes in the proposed 1C opening bid. Perhaps I should try to update the site first, with the proposed changes, and then all can see what we're talking about. I will try and to that today. It's only 15:30 here in Texas.

However, thanks for coming to my "rescue", chase. I do appreciate politeness and civility.

[glen]

fazzzoola, on 2011-March-19, 14:33, said:

... thanks for coming to my "rescue", chase. I do appreciate politeness and civility.

If "politeness and civility" is calling somebody rude and lazy for asking a simple "do you mean this or that" question, I think you are appreciating the wrong things.

Thanks for replying to my question (even when put in chase-style wording), and I look forward to when the details of your proposed system are available.

[glen]

. (this is what happens when I hit reply instead of edit and end up with duplicate postings)

[fazzzoola]

glen, on 2011-March-19, 14:49, said:

. (this is what happens when I hit reply instead of edit and end up with duplicate postings)

LOL... I am working on the updates to the site.

I was revisiting the 5-3-3-2 shape with clubs as the suit. The more I think about it, the more it seems to be forced into the 1C category, as if it were some kind of 4-x-x-x shape. However, be that as it may, I think the suit can always be rebid later, if there is still space.