[A2003]

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Click on board 24 bid. To view bids, click next.
To see other table, click on navigate, other table, click next.
Both Tables bid 7♦ with A♦trump missing.

What went wrong in the bidding system?
Is it a problem with Kickback convention?

[nigel_k]

The ace asker in each case knew there was a key card missing but chose to act again above five of the trump suit. Presumably they were hoping to reach 6NT instead of 6♦ as it was a close match. Both partners assumed that all the key cards had been confirmed and bid grand because they had extras. I don't think it is anything to do with kickback.

[mike777]

btw 4d by delmonte is not the kickback convention.


As far as I can tell 4h was not kickback in the other room either since it is not alerted and 5d would not be the correct response but hard to tell.....

In addition it is extremely rare for a hand with a void to bid kickback.

[blackshoe]

mike777, on 2011-March-22, 19:22, said:

As far as I can tell 4h was not kickback in the other room either since it is not alerted…

ACBL regs - it wouldn't be alerted until after the final pass. I gather there was no alert then, either?

[mike777]

blackshoe, on 2011-March-22, 19:46, said:

ACBL regs - it wouldn't be alerted until after the final pass. I gather there was no alert then, either?

I only note when I click on the hands, 4h and the 5d response were not alerted and 5d would not be the standard/correct response in kickback.

In addition it is very rare for a hand with a void to bid kickback.


Now if in real life they were alerted; I do not know.

[TWO4BRIDGE]

In the first one ( Delmonte ), 4D-jump = Minorwood.

The reply with 2+void somewhere is 5D!

If 5NT asked for Trump honors, doesn't the 6C reply = zero ??

[Free]

I noticed the following:

dburn said:

with an odd number of voids, you need a 13-card suit

This is incorrect, 1 is an odd number, so we don't need a 13-card suit if we have an odd number of voids.

I don't understand why Cheek didn't Dbl 7♦. What are his opps going to do? If they bid 7NT like algraves suggests, then W can Dbl again showing that he has the Ace of trumps (no lightner Dbl)...

[gnasher]

nigel_k, on 2011-March-22, 18:07, said:

The ace asker in each case knew there was a key card missing but chose to act again above five of the trump suit. Presumably they were hoping to reach 6NT instead of 6♦ as it was a close match. Both partners assumed that all the key cards had been confirmed and bid grand because they had extras. I don't think it is anything to do with kickback.

That seems very unlikely to me.

Weinstein and Levin have been playing together for about a decade. They must have discussed whether bidding above five of the trump suit promises all the key cards.

It's just about possible that Bakhshi-Delmonte, as a newish partnership, had omitted to discuss this, but I can't believe that Delmonte would risk doing this without discussion, knowing that there was a high risk of it's being misinterpreted.

I think that in both auctions a wheel had come off earlier.

[wyman]

Free, on 2011-March-23, 07:21, said:

I noticed the following:
This is incorrect, 1 is an odd number, so we don't need a 13-card suit if we have an odd number of voids.

I don't understand why Cheek didn't Dbl 7♦. What are his opps going to do? If they bid 7NT like algraves suggests, then W can Dbl again showing that he has the Ace of trumps (no lightner Dbl)...

Are you sure he'll have one to lead? The odds of both tables bidding this grand are a priori very remote. He should trust his teammates not to bid a grand off an ace and take his +50 imo.

[FrancesHinden]

My guess in the Levin/Weinstein auction (and this is definitely a guess) is that when North bid 4C, South thought that North had denied the ace of spades.

[gnasher]

FrancesHinden, on 2011-March-25, 16:57, said:

My guess in the Levin/Weinstein auction (and this is definitely a guess) is that when North bid 4C, South thought that North had denied the ace of spades.

Yes, that's correct - see bridgewinners.com for a discussion by the players themselves.

In the other auction, no wheel had come off, but Delmonte thought that after his 6♣ Bakhshi would cue-bid his void rather than jumping to seven, so opposite a spade void he could stop in 6NT. So I was right about one auction, and Nigel was right about the other.