[shevek]

Our club plays 24 board sessions most nights.
What's the best 2-winner movement for 12 tables? Here are a few choices.

1) 8 x 3 skip, playing 67% boards. (Against local masterpoint guidelines but that may not be a concern)

2) 12 x 2 share, sharing 2 boards. (Quite awkward)

3) 12 x 2 skip & revenge.

4) 12 x 2 Blackpool. (Play all oppos but miss 2 board sets)

5) Something else, not too exotic.


Nick

[blackshoe]

Twelve table Double Weave (aka Scissors) Mitchell, 12 rounds of 2 boards. No skip, no share, everybody plays all boards.

[Phil]

Scissors needs two sets of boards right?

[gordontd]

Phil, on 2011-March-08, 00:54, said:

Scissors needs two sets of boards right?

No.

Share & Relay does if you don't want to physically share boards.

[Vampyr]

It would be helpful to the OP if someone explained how the Double-Weave works, At the local club, it is assumed that the players will not manage this movement, and a revenge round is played.

The 8X3 was popular in the US many years ago, when I used to live there. It is disgusting.

[mycroft]

Because it took me four tries to Google out the Double-Weave, I'll post it:

Double-Weave Mitchell: requires 4n tables (8, 12 are the only reasonable ones).

N-S stationary.
ODD E-W move up one table every round; EVEN E-W move down one table every round.
EVEN board sets up in 1st half; ODD board sets down in 1st half; vice versa in second half.
Director moves boards 2n (4, 6) tables after 2n (4, 6) rounds.

There are table markers available at http://web.mit.edu/m...tter/index.html ; I would recommend using them, and having a non-playing TD. The E-W pairs will get it quickly; the N-S pairs will be permanently confused (which is good for them, occasionally. Too many "established players" play North because "it's MY table", "I have a place to put all my stuff", "I don't want to move", "I score", "I just reach behind me and bang South on the shoulder with the boards whether or not he's done, because it's all about ME"; they can use a little shakeup).

I'd love to try this, but my club mandates 26 boards *minimum* for open games (I'll run 30 on my team game night if I can, even if 27 or 28 would work), and I'm not going to try this with my novice games (even though I'll run a share/byestand 6 or 8 for 24. I agree that two-board relays are horrible, unless you have 11- tables, where you set up a 12-table byestand /"no share").

Edit: heh. Vampyr cross-posts with me :-)

[blackshoe]

mycroft, on 2011-March-08, 11:32, said:

Too many "established players" play North because "it's MY table", "I have a place to put all my stuff", "I don't want to move", "I score", "I just reach behind me and bang South on the shoulder with the boards whether or not he's done, because it's all about ME"; they can use a little shakeup).

It's not just the North/Souths. When the EW pairs at the clubs here get done with their boards, they get up and move to the next table - even if there's still several minutes left in the round. At their next table, they ask for boards, interrupting the players there. Or they stand there, turned partly away from the table, sticking their hand out over the table, wiggling their fingers. Then they complain about "slow players". Then, when halfway through the session they find themselves a full round ahead of everybody else, they wonder how that could possibly happen.

Of course, it doesn't help that about ten seconds after the clock's "three minute warning", the TD starts chivvying the players to "hurry and finish up and move for the next round".

[shevek]

Double-weave too exotic for us, will stick to Blackpool.

[Cascade]

gordontd, on 2011-March-08, 03:12, said:

No.

Share & Relay does if you don't want to physically share boards.

Not sure where you need to share.

[kevperk]

blackshoe, on 2011-March-07, 19:47, said:

Twelve table Double Weave (aka Scissors) Mitchell, 12 rounds of 2 boards. No skip, no share, everybody plays all boards.

I heard this called a Criss-Cross Mitchell. I am know of a "Scissors" Mitchell for 6,10,14 (4n+2) tables. It requires removing boards, and later returning then to different sets. I used it for a 6 1/2 table Mitchell that lost the 1/2 table just as round 2 was beginning to start. Ugly fix that I wouldn't plan on using initially.

[blackshoe]

Perhaps I got "scissors" wrong. <shrug>

[bluejak]

I think mycroft's description is wrong. Furthermore, it is one of the simplest movements in the book, the only problem is getting the players to believe you. Once they do, it is easily within their capabilities. There is no problem for a playing TD.

• Odd E/W: move up one table every round.
  
• Even E/W: move down one table every round.
  
• N/S: at end of each round move the boards the opposite way to the players.

It is far easier for the players than a Howell, Rover, Hesitation or Blackpool.

The only exception to the general rules is after n/2 rounds the boards are moved up or down n/2 tables - and the TD can do that himself after announcing this during the round.

I have never heard it called Scissors.

[blackshoe]

I knew there was another name besides "Double Weave". I misremembered what it was. I suppose as is common in these forums I should now go back and edit my original post, changing "scissors" to "criss-cross", and leaving future readers totally confused as to why there are references to "scissors" in the thread. But I don't think I will.

As I read it, Mycroft's description is the same as yours, David, although your description of how the boards move is certainly more clear.

The only thing that would make this difficult for a club is the tendency of some TDs, at least around here, to think their duty wrt to the movement ends when they put the boards out.

[WellSpyder]

blackshoe, on 2011-March-09, 09:56, said:

As I read it, Mycroft's description is the same as yours, David, although your description of how the boards move is certainly more clear.

Actually, I think there is possibly an even clearer way to describe how the boards move. Whenever we use this movement (which our chief TD does whenever we have 12 tables) EW are made responsible for the movement of the boards rather than the usual NS. So EW move up or down according to whether they have an odd or even number, and they move the boards in the opposite direction (and it's obvious to them that they can't move the boards in the same direction that they are going!).

Exactly the same as others as saying, of course, just a slightly different way of looking at it....

[Vampyr]

blackshoe, on 2011-March-09, 09:56, said:

The only thing that would make this difficult for a club is the tendency of some TDs, at least around here, to think their duty wrt to the movement ends when they put the boards out.

Perhaps issuing a set of guidelines would be helpful.

At the local club, we use two directors for every duplicate -- a "tournament director" and a "movement director". This way people who lack confidence/are untrained as tournament directors can still run the movement, without the distraction of making rulings, correcting Bridgemate errors, etc.

[shintaro]

shevek, on 2011-March-08, 19:28, said:

Double-weave too exotic for us, will stick to Blackpool.

No its not too exoctic just sounds it

Easy answer is to make Table Cards showing Each round and which pair numbers and set of boards then anyone who can read can get the movement correct

[Vampyr]

shintaro, on 2011-March-09, 13:34, said:

Easy answer is to make Table Cards showing Each round and which pair numbers and set of boards then anyone who can read can get the movement correct

Also it is a good idea to make sure each table checks the pair and board numbers on the Bridgemates before starting to play.

[suprgrover]

shintaro, on 2011-March-09, 13:34, said:

Easy answer is to make Table Cards showing Each round and which pair numbers and set of boards then anyone who can read can get the movement correct

Check out the link that mycroft provided--you will find there exactly what you describe. I confess that I am responsible for these particular guide cards, so if the description is subpar, blame me but don't blame the movement.

[Vampyr]

suprgrover, on 2011-March-09, 14:00, said:

Check out the link that mycroft provided--

Mycroft, can you check to see that the link is not broken?

[blackshoe]

Try this one.