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Your lead against 3NT

Poll: Your lead against 3NT (25 member(s) have cast votes)

Your Lead?

  1. Spade (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  2. Heart (2 votes [8.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 8.00%

  3. Diamond (20 votes [80.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 80.00%

  4. Club (3 votes [12.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 12.00%

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#21 User is offline   gwnn 

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Posted 2011-March-08, 02:15

kgr, click on the GIB button of your own diagram. only a diamond or a small heart lets it through.
... and I can prove it with my usual, flawless logic.
      George Carlin
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#22 User is offline   kgr 

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Posted 2011-March-08, 02:49

View Postgwnn, on 2011-March-08, 02:15, said:

kgr, click on the GIB button of your own diagram. only a diamond or a small heart lets it through.
yes, right (I didn't really verify for a Club because it didn't feel like a good lead :) )
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#23 User is offline   Free 

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Posted 2011-March-08, 03:09

If that's your partner's argument, I'd say he could've just doubled for a lead...
"It may be rude to leave to go to the bathroom, but it's downright stupid to sit there and piss yourself" - blackshoe
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#24 User is offline   whereagles 

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Posted 2011-March-08, 04:30

View Postkgr, on 2011-March-07, 15:05, said:

I did lead a small . My partner said that a Major lead was obvious after this bidding, but I thought leading my longest suit was better with 2 entries.


As you can see from the comments by experienced players, it's pretty obvious NOT to lead a major :)

Like everybody else, I'd blow a trick with my small diamond lead.
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#25 User is offline   bluecalm 

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Posted 2011-March-08, 04:49

My simulation tells me that:

A = 384
3 = 339
A = 369
5 = 343
J = 375
T = 401

(times the lead defeats 3NT on 1k hand sample)

So I am leading a club next time I am dealt this hand.
This is the second time lately when I would expect major suit lead to be a winner but it isn't. Last time it was Kxx holdings now Axx.
If we substitute our Axx of spades to 8xx then the results would be:

- 388
A - 326
5 - 315
J - 294
x - 309
T - 351

It seems that underleading Hxx sucks even double dummy. Obviously it's even worse in practical play.

EDIT:
For Q43 A85 JT43 T94 the results are:

3 - 205
A - 253
5[hearts= - 249
J - 238
4 - 251
T - 285

and for the same hand with Jxx of spades:

x - 327
A - 299
x - 295
T - 325

and the last one for Txx of spades:

3 - 396
A - 363
5 - 350
3 - 352
T - 399

The trend is clear: if there safe major suit lead available it's the best. If not, clubs > diamonds.
I have found that 1k hand sample still have some variance but is quite reliable (by that I mean that if the difference is 25+ hands it's rarely due to luck).
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#26 User is offline   jogs 

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Posted 2011-March-08, 12:48

View Postkgr, on 2011-March-07, 15:05, said:


I did lead a small . My partner said that a Major lead was obvious after this bidding, but I thought leading my longest suit was better with 2 entries.


They didn't stayman. A major is right quite often. 50/50 guess between spades and hearts.

You shouldn't have posted the results so quickly.
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#27 User is offline   gnasher 

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Posted 2011-March-08, 13:38

View Postbluecalm, on 2011-March-08, 04:49, said:

My simulation tells me that:

A = 384
3 = 339
A = 369
5 = 343
J = 375
T = 401

(times the lead defeats 3NT on 1k hand sample)

So I am leading a club next time I am dealt this hand.


Your simulation says that leading A is 15 points better than leading A. Common sense says that it can't be better to lead an ace from A43 than from A85. That suggests that a difference of 15 isn't large enough for us to draw any conclusions. Given that, I don't see why you think that the difference of 17 between a club and A is significant.
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
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#28 User is offline   bluecalm 

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Posted 2011-March-08, 14:03

Quote

Your simulation says that leading ♠A is 15 points better than leading ♥A. Common sense says that it can't be better to lead an ace from A43 than from A85. That suggests that a difference of 15 isn't large enough for us to draw any conclusions. Given that, I don't see why you think that the difference of 17 between a club and ♠A is significant.


I took average for Axx and the difference is quite big.
Lead from A8x is probably in fact worse though (cause 8 could be a trick). I will run it on bigger sample out of curiosity.
In my opinion those A leads only works double dummy though as in real life it could be difficult to switch in time to other suit which double dummy player always does.
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#29 User is offline   sathyab 

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Posted 2011-March-08, 14:04

View Postkgr, on 2011-March-08, 02:11, said:

Everybody wrong, only a spade will defeat it?


Or Ace and switch.
Seeking input from anyone who doesn't frequently "wtp", "Lol" or post to merely "Agree with ..."
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#30 User is offline   gwnn 

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Posted 2011-March-08, 14:24

View Postsathyab, on 2011-March-08, 14:04, said:

Or Ace and switch.

or .
... and I can prove it with my usual, flawless logic.
      George Carlin
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