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what does this mean, and what now?

#1 User is offline   rduran1216 

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Posted 2011-March-06, 03:12



You are playing with someone new, no special agreements, 3C was puppet stayman, what do you bid now?, and what is 5nt here with no agreement
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#2 User is offline   cherdano 

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Posted 2011-March-06, 05:03

Am I really playing 3 as puppet stayman and 4 as Gerber??
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#3 User is offline   Mbodell 

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Posted 2011-March-06, 05:59

I'm not sure that 4 is gerber, might well be clubs. 5nt is surely pick a slam, and I'd certainly bid 6 and see what happens after that.
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#4 User is offline   kenrexford 

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Posted 2011-March-06, 07:23

This is one of the MOST IMPORTANT innovations that I claim as inventor.

In many auctions, 5NT clearly asks for Kings.
In many auctions, 5NT clearly is a choice-of-slams bid.
In other auctions, 5NT has no pre-determined meaning.

When 5NT has no pre-determined meaning, any normal partnership is more likely to have had something go a tad unexpected, or to have had one (or both) partners get lost, than some esoteric number of Aces with a void or something like that.

Therefore, the most likely need for 5NT, IMO, is what I call "Oh S#!+ 5NT." OS5NT is a bid of 5NT in any auction that MIGHT have gone off the rails and says, by MY definition, "Partner, I have no idea what you are doing, or you have no idea what I am doing, or I have no ideas what I myself am doing, or you have no idea what you are doing, or some sombination of these four is occurring. Therefore, my last contribution to this auction is this 5NT call. I will not bid again, no matter what you bid. You can pass, if that seems right. Or, you can place the comntract anywhere you want. I am done now. Use your best judgment, based on whatever you might know or suspect from the mess that just resulted in my whipping out of the OS5NT call."

You might think that OS5NT is not needed in any good partnership. Yeah, right. You KNOW that you need this bid in YOUR partnership. Quit pretending and just use it.

The beauty of OS5NT, by the way, is that you don't have to discuss it. This 5NT, in this auction, is not understood. So, Opener guesses, which is what Responder might have wanted anyway. I jkust whipped out OS5NT at a club game on Thursday, and my partner had no clue what the heck 5NT was, but he guessed what to bid! Exactly as intended.

AGREEING to play OS5NT is more a matter of honesty and preparation. The prep part is that, next time, partner will not hear 5NT and scratch his head; he will hear 5NT and nod approvingly, possibly with complete agreement.
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#5 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2011-March-06, 08:41

partner is trying slam missing AKQJ of his long suit, we owe him a raise to 7.

I remember an old saying from a wise bridge dinosaur, when you are gonna try for slam, you have to first bid the suit you want to play it on.
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#6 User is offline   jillybean 

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Posted 2011-March-06, 11:51

What is 5NT here with no agreement? It's anything your partner would like it to be.
Why hasn't this a/e partnership disuccused it before hand?
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#7 User is offline   mtvesuvius 

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Posted 2011-March-06, 11:53

My metarule here still applies, and it could even be considered a bit of OS5NT... I'd bid 6, 5N for me is pick a slam.
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#8 User is offline   Bbradley62 

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Posted 2011-March-06, 12:03

These days, will most players open 2NT (or bid 2C-2D-2N) with a small doubleton?
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#9 User is offline   mtvesuvius 

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Posted 2011-March-06, 12:07

View PostBbradley62, on 2011-March-06, 12:03, said:

These days, will most players open 2NT (or bid 2C-2D-2N) with a small doubleton?

I'd sure hope so, although partner always manages to transfer (and pass) into that suit.
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#10 User is offline   jogs 

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Posted 2011-March-06, 12:29

View Postrduran1216, on 2011-March-06, 03:12, said:



You are playing with someone new, no special agreements, 3C was puppet stayman, what do you bid now?, and what is 5nt here with no agreement


If I were playing puppet, the auction would have started:

2 - 2
2NT - 3
3
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#11 User is offline   mtvesuvius 

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Posted 2011-March-06, 12:33

View Postjogs, on 2011-March-06, 12:29, said:

If I were playing puppet, the auction would have started:

2 - 2
2NT - 3
3

LOL
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#12 User is offline   inquiry 

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Posted 2011-March-06, 14:32

View Postmtvesuvius, on 2011-March-06, 12:33, said:

LOL



For what it is worth, the lol relates to the normal puppet stayman response scheme where 3 promises a four card major, which obviously opener does not have. I actually play a different scheme I stole from glen's bridgematters website, were 3 would be the right bid here. But clearly within context of the original post, 3NT was the correct bid.


I have no reason to doubt that 4 was gerber if for no other reason that south has 100 honors in clubs.

To me, 5NT is clearly pick a slam. I expect north to be 2=3=4=4 or 3=2=4=4 and he looked first for a 5-3 major fit in his three card suit, and now he is looking for the 100% certain 4-4 (or better) fit in the minors.

I expect something like this in partner's hand: Qx - AQx - KTxx xxxx
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#13 User is offline   gszes 

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Posted 2011-March-06, 22:07

assuming our 2c 2d 2n showed 22-23 I think p is showing a hand around 13 balanced.

Not enough for a direct 2c 2d 2n 5n but very very close and has promised all of the aces
practically begging you to bid a grand if you have some kind of hidden surprise
(like AKQJx clubs) bid 7n at mp and 7c at imps only because it might be a tad safer.
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#14 User is offline   MrAce 

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Posted 2011-March-06, 22:18

Kenrexford, u definetely got another +1 from me :D
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#15 User is offline   mtvesuvius 

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Posted 2011-March-06, 22:53

Just being able to write "Oh S!+@ 5NT" on a convention card is worth whatever sacrifices may be necessary to play it.
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