[TWO4BRIDGE]

( 1D ) - p - ( 2S! weak ) - 2NT = ??

[BunnyGo]

TWO4BRIDGE, on 2011-February-27, 16:28, said:

( 1D ) - p - ( 2S! weak ) - 2NT = ??

I think the "obvious" response is that it depends on your agreements. I believe that in "standard" it's simply a good hand with spades stopped and no direction (and for whatever reason didn't want to sit for a penalty pass). I think this is a bad system (since you'll usually want a penalty pass, and no one gets rich bidding 2NT here) even though it's what I play generally but this is PERFECT for using good-bad 2NT

http://www.bridgeguy...ad2NTCohen.html

. If you're familiar with Lebensohl, this is a similar situation. It shows a competitive hand that simply wants to place a 3 level contract if opener doesn't have extras.

Edit: disregard the above. I was answering a question not asked.

[MrAce]

BunnyGo, on 2011-February-27, 17:49, said:

I think the "obvious" response is that it depends on your agreements. I believe that in "standard" it's simply a good hand with spades stopped and no direction (and for whatever reason didn't want to sit for a penalty pass). I think this is a bad system (since you'll usually want a penalty pass, and no one gets rich bidding 2NT here) even though it's what I play generally but this is PERFECT for using good-bad 2NT

http://www.bridgeguy...ad2NTCohen.html

. If you're familiar with Lebensohl, this is a similar situation. It shows a competitive hand that simply wants to place a 3 level contract if opener doesn't have extras.

I think you are confused. You are not the one who opened 1 ♦ This has nothing to do with good-bad 2NT, LHO opened 1♥, pd passed, RHO bid wjs 2♠.

I play it natural.

[BunnyGo]

MrAce, on 2011-February-27, 19:28, said:

I think you are confused. You are not the one who opened 1 ♦ This has nothing to do with good-bad 2NT, LHO opened 1♥, pd passed, RHO bid wjs 2♠.

I play it natural.

You are absolutely correct, I was confused about the sequence.

[Free]

I play it natural, no sandwich at 2-level

[Gerben42]

I have exactly the opposite reasoning as Free... No natural NT bid in the sandwich at the 2-level. 2NT = ♣+♥, at least 5-5.

[TWO4BRIDGE]

Gerben42, on 2011-February-28, 06:04, said:

I have exactly the opposite reasoning as Free... No natural NT bid in the sandwich at the 2-level. 2NT = ♣+♥, at least 5-5.

And therein lies the controversey.

I probably should have asked this as a POLL.

1) (5/5)+ in the unbid vs

2) Natural ( and what hcp range ? ).

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
background:
a) I play Sandwich... ONLY by a passed hand, so:
(1D) - p - ( 1S ) - 1NT = natural

b ) 2NT in balancing position ( "when only 2 bidders" ) is natural:
( 1D ) - p - ( p ) - 2NT = strong

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

My thinking is that when there are "3 bidders", 2NT = Unusual

[MrAce]

Gerben42, on 2011-February-28, 06:04, said:

I have exactly the opposite reasoning as Free... No natural NT bid in the sandwich at the 2-level. 2NT = ♣+♥, at least 5-5.

What you said makes sense if it was a normal 2/1 auction regardless of GF 2/1 or just 10+, such as;

1♠- pass-2♣-2NT playing 2 NT here as natural will almost never come, and even if it does it is arguable if one shd stick his nose into this auction with balanced hand.

However the situation here is completely different, LHO opens and RHO shows a very weak hand with 6 cards ♠.

[Gerben42]

Quote

However the situation here is completely different, LHO opens and RHO shows a very weak hand with 6 cards ♠.

Bidding a natural NT behind an opening already holds the risk of being doubled. In this auction, responder also described his hand and we are in front of opener, who will have a VERY good idea when it is lucrative to double 2NT. Whatever the upside, the downside is even bigger.

[pooltuna]

Gerben42, on 2011-February-28, 06:04, said:

I have exactly the opposite reasoning as Free... No natural NT bid in the sandwich at the 2-level. 2NT = ♣+♥, at least 5-5.

This will work with opening hand strength or better otherwise you are just preempting over a preempt.

[655321]

MrAce, on 2011-February-28, 07:19, said:

Gerben42, on 2011-February-28, 06:04, said:

I have exactly the opposite reasoning as Free... No natural NT bid in the sandwich at the 2-level. 2NT = ♣+♥, at least 5-5.

What you said makes sense if it was a normal 2/1 auction regardless of GF 2/1 or just 10+, such as;

1♠- pass-2♣-2NT playing 2 NT here as natural will almost never come, and even if it does it is arguable if one shd stick his nose into this auction with balanced hand.

However the situation here is completely different, LHO opens and RHO shows a very weak hand with 6 cards ♠.

Agree with MrAce that this auction is completely different from a 2/1 auction, and therefore 2NT here is just natural.

Here is an earlier thread with an actual hand.

[tolvyrj]

I would take it as natural 15-18 hcp. and balanced ( or something like that). With decent hand and ♥+ ♣ in u hand u can dbl and with very good or weird hand u can always bid 3♠.

[gwnn]

natural. never 15, rarely 16.

buyer beware, against some opponents it is a complete losing proposition because they think weak means as much as 8 good ones.

[JLOGIC]

not playing this as natural is completely bizarre

[JLOGIC]

655321, on 2011-March-01, 21:34, said:

Agree with MrAce that this auction is completely different from a 2/1 auction, and therefore 2NT here is just natural.

Here is an earlier thread with an actual hand.

This thread made me laugh so hard. I got LOLed twice and accused of being drunk as JLOL, then you agreed with me, then my next post in the thread was as Jlall with undertitle follower of 655321. Good times.

[mtvesuvius]

I remember that one!