[Valardent]

Interesting post mortem article about a 7NT made tx a squeeze @

http://bridgetopics....t-mortem-moscow

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1♣ is 16+

south relays and learn this :

1♠ = 4+♥, GF
2♣ = natural
3♣ = 2-5-2-4
3NT = 4 controls (A=2,K=1)
4♦ = no ♥A/K or ♥A+K+Q
4♠ = no ♣A/K or ♣A+K+Q
5♥ = ♠A/K/Q, ♦A/K/Q, no ♥Q

4♣ triggers DCB.

What I don't get is why, after the 2 first scan stops, the rule changes :
instead of a stop at 5♦ (showing ♠A or ♠K) denying A/K♦, now a Queen is enough for not stopping (thus Queens are now directly scanned).

Is it because those suits are made of a doubleton?

or because 2 stops have been made?

or because 3 (or more than half of the) controls out of 4 have been showed?

Does anyone plays DCB "changing rules" ?

If yes, is it worth?

What's the experience regarding steps won vs more ambiguity cases?

Tx for thoughts

[skaftij]

North had ♦ Queen

[Valardent]

skaftij, on 2011-February-21, 14:16, said:

North had ♦ Queen

Tx, fixed now.

[wclass___]

I have no idea what are you talking about, the rule doesn't change. With 0/2=+1;1/3=skip.

Bidding is not correct in your diagram.

South made asking bids, noth gave answer bids.

North probably made a mistake by bidding 4♠ as he does have ♣AKQ.

[lowerline]

You forgot the 2♦ relay by South. From that point on all bids are interchanged between North and South.

Now, to answer your question: The rule being applied here is: if you have N control cards (not controls, but control cards), show the queen immediately from the Nth suit onwards. I first learned about this rule in Alan Truscott's notes on Symmetric Relay.

In the example, North has 3 controls cards (♠K, ♣A and ♣K), so he will show queens starting with his 3rd suit (spades).

Clearly this is more efficient than queens only in the second scan. Ambiguity is possible, but it doesn't happen that often and even when it does it doesn't always matter. So, yes, I think it is worthwile.

Steven

[Valardent]

wclass___, on 2011-February-22, 04:40, said:

I have no idea what are you talking about, the rule doesn't change. With 0/2=+1;1/3=skip.

Bidding is not correct in your diagram.

Indeed, the 2♦ relay was missing, fixed now.

IMO the rule does change after the 1st 2 stops :

Given the bidding explanation, even if north had ♥Q (no A/K♥), the scan would stop while it doesn't stop when ♦ are scanned even though A/K♦ are missing (♦Q allows to skip while ♥Q won't, same would be true for ♠).

I think it's probably due to the facte that those 2 suits are made of doubletons.

[Radrag]

Doesn't seem very useful to have the first step show zero honors OR three honors when scanning a doubleton. It might be that the first step, when scanning a doubleton, show zero or two honors (AK/AQ/KQ).

[wclass___]

hmm.. it seems i misread their rule.
So ''no ♥A/K or ♥A+K+Q'' =nothing or only Q or AK or AKQ ? I don't get why they need to add A+K+Q part as it is already in. Strange indeed.

Quote

It might be that the first step, when scanning a doubleton, show zero or two honors (AK/AQ/KQ).

^^That is what i thought their rule is.

[Fluffy]

lol, amazing!!. this auction is very similar to the one I'd have in my strong club system, (only 3NT, 5♥ and 7NT differs) yet, not a single meaning fits (except the relay bids)


I don't understand when did south know about ♣Q and when did he know ♠K is there, not the ♠Q

EDIT: Ok checked better, I understand now all, 4♦ showed ♣AKQ and 4 controls means the spade honnor must be ♠K

[lowerline]

Fluffy, on 2011-February-23, 11:26, said:

lol, amazing!!. this auction is very similar to the one I'd have in my strong club system, (only 3NT, 5♥ and 7NT differs) yet, not a single meaning fits (except the relay bids)


I don't understand when did south know about ♣Q and when did he know ♠K is there, not the ♠Q

EDIT: Ok checked better, I understand now all, 4♦ showed ♣AKQ and 4 controls means the spade honnor must be ♠K

Actually you knew about ♠K and ♣AK when he showed 4 controls, because you have all the controls... The 4♠ showed you the ♣Q and the 5♥ showed the ♦Q and denied the ♥Q. The bidding could have continued and you would have found out about the missing jacks in hearts and clubs (5♠-5NT-6♣-6♦), but those don't make a real difference here...

Nobody seems to question the decision to bid 7NT... Would you have recognized the chances for a double squeeze when hearts are not 2-2 DURING THE BIDDING? I think this is pretty awesome...

Steven

[Gerben42]

Quote

Nobody seems to question the decision to bid 7NT... Would you have recognized the chances for a double squeeze when hearts are not 2-2 DURING THE BIDDING? I think this is pretty awesome...

Playing a relay system, it is often possible to plan the play during the bidding. I still remember the first time I spotted a dummy reversal during the auction. Given that N/S are multiple European Champions, this impressive analysis does not surprise me. It DOES make me optimistic that they will add a World title on home court this fall