[Curls77]

Maybe this was already explained, but I couldn't find it.

Your partner in 1st seat opens 1NT. RHO overcalls. I would guess some of options (please correct me if I am wrong):
a ) if they overcall for example 2C and you wanted to bid Stayman, you can double showing that was exactly what you'd bid if they didn't interfere.
b ) they bid 2D and you planned to transfer to spades, so you simply bid 2H as if they didn't overcall at all.
c ) this last situation is my problem.. what do you do if you wanted to bid Stayman and they bid 2D ? or you wanted to transfer to hearts and they bid 2S ?

Thanks

[blackshoe]

The standard, traditional way to Stayman after their overcall is to cue bid, so if the overcall is 2♦, then 3♦ is Stayman.

The standard, traditional way to show a suit when they've bid past your transfer is to not transfer, just bid naturally, so after a 2♠ overcall, 3♥ shows hearts.

Note that you need a good hand to bid at the three level, so with weak hands (garbage Stayman, or a hand where uncontested you would transfer and pass) you're just going to have to pass.

[Antraxxx]

I'm by no means an expert (quite the opposite) so the simple system we have is this:
1) If they double the 1NT opening, we ignore it and proceed as usual (so 2♣ is stayman etc)
2) If they overcall 2♣ then double is stayman, everything else is as usual (2♦ transfer to hearts etc)
3) If they overcall anything else, then 2♥/♠ is invitational with that five-card suit, double is penalty, cue bid is stayman (must have game-forcing values) and 2NT is lebensohl.

I'm sure there are better treatments, but this one's pretty easy to remember and seems to work okay in a beginner/intermediate field.

[Stephen Tu]

Antraxxx, on 2011-February-09, 06:18, said:

1) If they double the 1NT opening, we ignore it and proceed as usual (so 2♣ is stayman etc)

That's reasonable if the double has some artificial meaning (some two suiter, or one suiter, advancer expected to pull). It's probably not so reasonable if the double was for penalty showing a very strong hand. When the double is for penalty, you really want to have some way to play 2c or 2d, which might make when 1nt goes down, or go down less, or prompt the opponents to bid on to their own major suit contract taking you off the hook. Also, the chances for game are reduced, so you don't often need these delicate transfer then invite sequences, and good scores can be obtained by playing 1nt x, 1nt xx, and doubling the opponents for penalty, when you do happen to have the majority of the remaining points.

So over a penalty double, you probably want to play everything natural (suits to play, xx with your good hands). Or some people use various runout schemes, using redouble and/or pass artificially (e.g. redouble forces 2c, to get out in a minor, pass forces redouble followed by either passing the xx or various scrambles). I personally prefer just natural but YMMV.

Quote

2) If they overcall 2♣ then double is stayman, everything else is as usual (2♦ transfer to hearts etc)
3) If they overcall anything else, then 2♥/♠ is invitational with that five-card suit, double is penalty, cue bid is stayman (must have game-forcing values) and 2NT is lebensohl.

It's reasonable to play system on over 2♣, but over higher calls, it's not right to use 2 level transfers. The reason is that the double gets much more value used as either negative (allowing competition for partials when you have weaker hands with 4 cd majors, not enough to game force, also picking up some penalties when opener can pass), or penalties.

2h/2s should be to play, *not* invitational. The idea is that invitational hands make up a very small percentage of your possible 5 cd major hands. The vast majority of them are either clear "I want to play a partial" (8- pts), or "I want to play game" (10+ pts). Invitational hands, ~9 pts, come up too rarely to cater to those rather than the ones where you just want to play 2h/2s and no higher unless opener has a "super-accept" type hand. Lebensohl will allow you to invite if your suit is higher than theirs, otherwise just use judgment and either game force or not.

If you want to retain transfers over the higher calls, do so at the THREE level (Rubensohl, other transfer Lebensohl variants).

[Stephen Tu]

Curls77, on 2011-February-09, 05:59, said:

b ) they bid 2D and you planned to transfer to spades, so you simply bid 2H as if they didn't overcall at all.

As per my previous post, don't use xfers over 2d+ at the 2 level, you want to be able to use double as either negative or penalty. If you want to bid spades here, bid 2s to signoff, 3s to force to game, with 6 spades 4H xfer (if Texas xfers agreed). If playing Lebensohl you can bid 2nt, then 3s to invite.

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c ) this last situation is my problem.. what do you do if you wanted to bid Stayman and they bid 2D ?

Bid 3d. If playing Lebensohl, you have the choice of 3d (stayman without a diamond stop), or 2nt follow by 3d (stayman with a stop).

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or you wanted to transfer to hearts and they bid 2S ?

Bid 3h to force to game with 5 hearts. With 6 hearts, can bid 4d if Texas agreed. With Lebensohl, 2nt followed by 3h to play.

With Rubensohl (played by tiny percentage adv/expert partnerships only), can transfer with 3d. Maybe I shouldn't even have mentioned this in the beg/int forum.

[ggwhiz]

I've found negative doubles useful here.

After 1nt - 2♦ - double is negative = stayman

Doesn't have to be game forcing, just strong enough to fight it out if pard has to pass. Lebensohl handles the 5-card major hands.

[Antraxxx]

Don't you want to keep double as penalty when people interfere with your NT?

[ggwhiz]

Nothing works all the time and you lose some penalties when the opponents also had no place to run but how often?

As a matter of frequency, people like Marty Bergen?? wrote that this approach occurs more often and handles more likely hands, especially important at matchpoints.

In a practised partnership, you can recover quite a few penalties by making a trap pass when the 1nt opener is not afraid to re-open with double on suitable hands with only 2 in the overcalled suit. Suitable vulnerability too. When red, you probably break even or close by just bidding 3nt instead of a penalty double.

I've also stumbled into the occasional surprise penalty when partner passes my negative double when THEY have 4 cards in the overcall suit and prime defensive cards.

[Stephen Tu]

ggwhiz, on 2011-February-09, 22:06, said:

I've found negative doubles useful here.

After 1nt - 2♦ - double is negative = stayman

Note that playing negative doubles, you still want to retain the cue bid (and lebensohl followed by cue bid) as stayman. There are hands with stiff/void diamond, and various strength ranges/vulnerabilities where you don't want to take a chance on opener passing, because your estimate is that 3nt likely rates to outscore the penalty available if you don't find the major fit.

[ggwhiz]

Agree with Stephen and have the scars from the learning curve as to when to trot the negative double out.

[Quantumcat]

If playing in a casual partnership, or if you consider either yourself or your partner beginners, a sound agreement to have is this:

-- Transfers OFF after interference:
-bid at cheapest level to play,
-jump to force (only forcing if below game of course),
-bid opponent's suit to ask for a 4-card major or stopper.

-- First double is TAKEOUT:
-If you have a penalty, wait for partner to double, then pass.
-If you are opener and you're about to pass out their overcall, consider a takeout double with a small doubleton in their suit.

This will get your through 90% of auctions very smoothly.

Other posters mentioned Rubensohl. This is an improvement over the above but requires a small amount of memory.
Using Rubensohl, bidding at the two-level is weak and to play.
If the overcall is no higher than 2♠, then 2nt through 3♠ are transfers. 3♠ is a transfer to 3NT without a stopper, while a direct 3NT shows a stopper.
If a two-level bid in the suit you are transferring to was possible, then you show invitational values or better by transferring (Opener will bid game to accept the invitation). If the two-level bid was not possible, you might be weak (you will pass after the acceptance of the transfer) or game-forcing (you will bid again).
Transferring to the opponent's suit is Stayman.

e.g.

1NT (2H) 3D ... transfer to opponent's suit asks for four spades or a stopper (opener can bid 3H with neither)

1NT (2S) P (P)
X (P) P (P) ... you held a penalty double, and partner kindly reopened for you

1NT (2D) 3C (P)
3D (P) 3H ... you asked for a four-card major, opener does not have one and neither does he have a full stopper. Now we will try to find a 4-3 major-suit fit to play in or find out if we each have a half-stopper.