[mtvesuvius]

What do you bid here? Do you expect to be pre-empted out of hearts if you bid 2♣? Can you ever uncover the clubs after 2♥?

---

[manudude03]

I'll just bid 2♣ for now. If they jam the auction with 4♠, I'll bid 4N. Will bid 4♥ if otherwise possible (any higher and I'll probably have to double )

[Phil]

2♣

[dake50]

I can start 2S suggesting a big 2-suiter in unbids.
I have various D-raises + fit bids, so this is what's left.

[paulg]

I'd start with 2♣ expecting to show something in hearts if pre-empted.

In Garozzo's Ambra system cue bids of one level overcalls show 5-5, invitational or better, in the other two suits. We've found that it works very well when it comes up and has let us bid a lot of slams missed at the other table. Naturally you have to give up a natural call for the invitational raise. The principle of showing these 5-5 hands seems common in Italian bidding.

[Fluffy]

Who cares about hearts being preempted when our clubs are self suficent and their suit is spades?. If spades and hearts were reversed I would certainly bid 1/2♠ though.

[Hanoi5]

I don't understand why this type of hand can't be handled by doubling now and cue-bidding later.

[Fluffy]

Being generous with only a 3♠ bid with no raise it will go:


1 ♦ - 1 ♠ - dobl - 3♠
pass-pass- 4♠ -pass
5 ♦ - pass-

[Hanoi5]

How about:

1♦-1♠-dbl-3♠
pass-pass-dbl-pass
4♦-pass-4♠-pass
5♣!

[Lurpoa]

mtvesuvius, on 2011-February-04, 20:31, said:

What do you bid here? Do you expect to be pre-empted out of hearts if you bid 2♣? Can you ever uncover the clubs after 2♥?

---

Maybe it is a good idea to bid 2♥.
If LHO bid 4♠, You can bid 5♣: and play 5♣ !

But indeed, the risk is to miss 6♣.... even if opps stay low....

No, I go for a 2♣ bid: only if oppss jump to 4♠ it could go wrong.
But if my LHO can indeed bid 4♠, it smells like slam time ! and 5♥ will give a choice to partner !
So no, I am not afraid of a 4♠bid

[Phil]

paulg, on 2011-February-05, 03:14, said:

I'd start with 2♣ expecting to show something in hearts if pre-empted.

In Garozzo's Ambra system cue bids of one level overcalls show 5-5, invitational or better, in the other two suits. We've found that it works very well when it comes up and has let us bid a lot of slams missed at the other table. Naturally you have to give up a natural call for the invitational raise. The principle of showing these 5-5 hands seems common in Italian bidding.

Echognome and I play a 5542 system and the one time we have played in the last two years, he suggested we pretend (in essence) that the 1♣ opening didn't exist when they overcalled. So here:

1N - natural - 8-11
2♣/2♦/2♥ - natural, one round force
2♠ - "Michaels"
2N = "minors"
3♣/3♦/3♥ = preemptive
3♠ = stopper ask, but this could be a transfer to 3N too.

[TWO4BRIDGE]

mtvesuvius, on 2011-February-04, 20:31, said:

What do you bid here? Do you expect to be pre-empted out of hearts if you bid 2♣? Can you ever uncover the clubs after 2♥?

---

I don't know if this will work.
Neg-DBL first,
then if opps go to 4♠, I'll cuebid 5♠! essentially asking to pick a ♥ or ♣ slam.

Another way is as Lurpoa initially suggested..and perhaps better: 2♥ first,
then 6C .

[dellache]

1. If they bid no higher than 3♠, we can show our distribution by bidding 2♣/4♥
2. If they bid to 4♠, we will probably play at least at the 5-level. In that case we will want to play in the best fit, and ♣ is a priori the best target.
Hence, playing "natural", I would never consider anything else than 2♣.

Actually with xtruel we play a 5542 system where the 3♠ jump-cue shows that kind of hand (rounded suits 5+5+, 6- losers hand).
If they bid 4♠ now, I'll show my hand by bidding 5♣ on the next round.

[JLOGIC]

The argument that we will be "preempted out of hearts" is so fallacious. If the opponents are going to bid to 4S, are we more likely to compete to 5C or 5H? What is the difference of hearts or clubs if both must be played at the 5 level, obviously clubs is much better. The usual reason of hearts being better than clubs (game being one trick lower) does not exist when the presumption is that they are bidding above 4H!

If the opponents are not going to bid up to 4S (which will happen wayyyyy more often than not, why are we assuming they will even bid 3S?) then how will we be preempted out of hearts, we can just bid hearts next even at the 4 level. Partner will not be confused when it goes 1D (1S) 2C (3S) p (p) 4H, that is 5-6 every time.

Meanwhile if we bid hearts and then clubs, partner is going to preference back with a doubleton heart. Our hand plays terribly in a 5-2 heart fit. We are misdescribing our hand in a big way with big consequences rather than just bidding our longest suit first, it's just awful.

/rant sorry but people make this mistake in logic over and over and over again.

[cherdano]

And JLOGIC didn't even mention slam!

[TWO4BRIDGE]

mtvesuvius, on 2011-February-04, 20:31, said:

What do you bid here? Do you expect to be pre-empted out of hearts if you bid 2♣? Can you ever uncover the clubs after 2♥?

---

Let's say you are going to play in ♣...at least at the 5-level ( a la J-LO GIC ) your longest suit because odds are it will play better ....no matter what.

Would 4NT just be Ace-asking ? and NOT RKC because if you wanted ♦ as trump you would cuebid 2♠! to show a limit raise+ for ♦ and then some form of RKC next.

Soo, after:
1D - ( 1S ) - 4NT - ( Edit: X )
?? EDIT:
.. now partner has ROPI :
.. XX = 0
.. pass = 1 Ace
.. 5C ( next step ) = 2
.. 5D ( 2nd step ) = 3

If partner shows 1 Ace, you signoff in 5C .

If partner shows 2 aces, take your chances in 6C .

If partner has 3 Aces, I'd still play in 6C ....unless you feel mighty lucky.

[aguahombre]

Is dopi on over an insufficient bid? Never discussed it.

Looks like in some cases we need the 4S bid over 4NT to get out with a plus.

[TWO4BRIDGE]

aguahombre, on 2011-February-05, 19:08, said:

Is dopi on over an insufficient bid? Never discussed it.

Looks like in some cases we need the 4S bid over 4NT to get out with a plus.

OOOOps

[Fluffy]

aguahombre, on 2011-February-05, 19:08, said:

Is dopi on over an insufficient bid? Never discussed it.

Very off topic, but someone told me once that it is forbidden to have agreements/coventions that trigger when opponents make inssuficent bids, is this right?

[Fluffy]

BTW, this hand is so clear to play in clubs that playing NFBs I would bid 3♣ instead of dobule