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What the hell does partner have?

#1 User is offline   jschafer 

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Posted 2011-January-25, 11:04

You open the bidding with 1♣ and the auction proceeds as follows:

1♣ - (1♥) - X - (Pass)
1NT - (2♥) - 2♠ - (Pass)
 ?
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#2 User is offline   nigel_k 

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Posted 2011-January-25, 13:16

1. What was the first X?
2. What would double instead of 2♠ be?
3. IMPs or matchpoints?

My best guess is it probably ought to be a good club raise, but if I did it undiscussed I would have a hand that is willing to play there.
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#3 User is offline   barmar 

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Posted 2011-January-25, 14:18

It doesn't seem like it could be natural. If he had 5+ spades he would have bid 1♠ in the first round; the negative double shows exactly 4.

There are some pairs that invert the meanings of 1♠ and negative double, but that's not a treatment anyone should use without discussion. I suppose it's possible that he learned from someone who uses that variation, and doesn't realize it's nonstandard. If the double shows 5+, I guess bidding the suit on the second round must show 6+ (you've presumably denied 3 by bidding 1NT instead of 2♠).

#4 User is offline   jschafer 

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Posted 2011-January-25, 16:22

View Postnigel_k, on 2011-January-25, 13:16, said:

1. What was the first X?
2. What would double instead of 2♠ be?
3. IMPs or matchpoints?

Everything standard here, Double just tends to show a hand with 4♠ and 1♠ would show 5+♠. A second double would be take out according to our agreements. The scoring was IMPS.
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#5 User is offline   wyman 

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Posted 2011-January-25, 16:58

My guess:

If you don't play WJS after the overcall, this sequence should probably show one.

Otherwise, this might show a weak 5=1=5=2 or 5=1=6=1 hand that was planning on passing your rebid but has no desire to defend (too scared to X for takeout for fear that you might pass :)). But this is indeed a strange auction.
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#6 User is offline   nigel_k 

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Posted 2011-January-25, 17:08

View Postjschafer, on 2011-January-25, 16:22, said:

Everything standard here, Double just tends to show a hand with 4♠ and 1♠ would show 5+♠. A second double would be take out according to our agreements. The scoring was IMPS.

In that case a good club raise seems like the only hand type that can't be dealt with another way, e.g. AQxx xx Qx QJxxx.
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#7 User is offline   barmar 

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Posted 2011-January-25, 17:15

That makes sense. It's similar to the Impossible Spade in 1♥-1NT-2♣-2♠.

#8 User is offline   kenrexford 

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Posted 2011-January-25, 18:14

I agree with the others here. Impossible club raise.
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#9 User is offline   Bbradley62 

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Posted 2011-January-26, 16:35

View Postwyman, on 2011-January-25, 16:58, said:

If you don't play WJS after the overcall, this sequence should probably show one.

Agree with this
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#10 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2011-January-27, 00:53

4153 looking to compete but not to play dobuled
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#11 User is offline   FrancesHinden 

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Posted 2011-January-28, 12:57

I agree with fluffy, though I wouldn't like to experiment with this at the table. By analogy with 1NT P P 2H; p p 2S.
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#12 User is offline   barmar 

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Posted 2011-January-28, 17:55

So now that we've been speculating for several days, what DID partner have?
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