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Balanced 16 after both opponents have bid

Poll: Balanced 16 after both opponents have bid (29 member(s) have cast votes)

What is your call?

  1. Double (15 votes [51.72%])

    Percentage of vote: 51.72%

  2. Pass (8 votes [27.59%])

    Percentage of vote: 27.59%

  3. 1S (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  4. 1NT (5 votes [17.24%])

    Percentage of vote: 17.24%

  5. Other (1 votes [3.45%])

    Percentage of vote: 3.45%

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#1 User is offline   humilities 

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Posted 2011-January-26, 09:26



Matchpoints, both sides Vul, unknown opponents playing 2/1. Your call?
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#2 User is offline   TimG 

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Posted 2011-January-26, 09:47

I can't see the hand on my iPod, but I guess pass.
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#3 User is offline   han 

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Posted 2011-January-26, 11:01

Double.
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.

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#4 User is offline   hrothgar 

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Posted 2011-January-26, 11:40

The Ax in Hearts is a miserable holding for 1NT, so this is right out.

The choice would appear to boil down to Double versus Pass.

1. I have 4 Spades
2. Hearts have been bid on my right and I have two of them

Put these togehter and double is looking mighty attractive.
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#5 User is offline   mtvesuvius 

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Posted 2011-January-26, 11:39

Double, 1N here isn't too safe and won't work out very often. Pass is making life much harder later. Double is the perfect in-between... Yes, I'd like to have another club, but I'll just tell partner I had a diamond in with my clubs.
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#6 User is offline   Trinidad 

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Posted 2011-January-26, 11:55

View Postmtvesuvius, on 2011-January-26, 11:39, said:

Double, 1N here isn't too safe and won't work out very often. Pass is making life much harder later. Double is the perfect in-between... Yes, I'd like to have another club, but I'll just tell partner I had a diamond in with my clubs.

Didn't someone in another thread tell you that you needed glasses? :P

I would pass, BTW.

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#7 User is offline   mtvesuvius 

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Posted 2011-January-26, 11:58

View PostTrinidad, on 2011-January-26, 11:55, said:

Didn't someone in another thread tell you that you needed glasses? :P

lol yes, shot glasses please!
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#8 User is offline   gnasher 

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Posted 2011-January-26, 12:47

1NT. "15-18 balanced with stops in the red suits" seems a better description than "Opening strength with both black suits".
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#9 User is offline   paulg 

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Posted 2011-January-26, 12:57

1NT for me. I don't really understand why many are so worried about the heart holding. Bidding in this position is a (presumably justified) gamble and the hand will almost always have some negative feature, so if you are not prepared to dive in then you might as well use 1NT for some other purpose.
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#10 User is offline   mtvesuvius 

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Posted 2011-January-26, 12:57

The main reason why I dislike 1N is that we have 4♠, and this looks to be a partscore battle at best. We'll lose spades sometimes by bidding 1N and being R/R at MPs doesn't help either.
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#11 User is offline   nigel_k 

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Posted 2011-January-26, 13:58

I prefer 1NT and also am not that worried about hearts. It's only the one level. I think 1NT will work out better if partner doesn't have spades and we still have a chance to find a 4-4 spade fit after 1NT.
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#12 User is offline   barmar 

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Posted 2011-January-26, 14:52

I dislike bidding 1NT with holdings like this, which is why I usually play Sandwich NT (showing a weak distributional hand with the other two suits).

I pass with this hand, I just don't see enough upside to doubling. What's the chance that we have a fit in the black suits? LHO hasn't announced a fit with RHO's hearts, that could be partner's only 4-card suit. The double also gives LHO the possibility of a support redouble. So partner might have to bid a 3-card spade suit, and then take heart ruffs in the long hand.

If LHO raises hearts and it passes around to me, I'll probably balance.

#13 User is offline   Gerben42 

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Posted 2011-January-26, 14:58

Pass, second choice Double. Overcalling 1NT naturally is fine when only one opponent has bid, but when two have bid it's playing with fire.

If it goes 2♥ Pass Pass I'll revive the bidding.
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#14 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2011-January-26, 15:25

I don't normally play 1Nt natural on this position, but if I did, wouldn't it be for hands like these?
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#15 User is offline   barmar 

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Posted 2011-January-26, 15:28

Yes, I guess if you play 1NT natural this would be the kind of hand. It's a bit much to expect double stoppers in both opponents' suits.

Which is why I think natural 1NT is a silly bid. If you have their suits well stopped, it just means that the opponents have much of their strength in their side suits, which you don't have protected. Unless both opponents are bidding light, you can't expect much help from partner. The only safety is if he has length somewhere and can transfer you out of NT. But if that's what you're depending on, you might as well double.

#16 User is offline   655321 

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Posted 2011-January-26, 15:44

I would bid 1NT, but double also seems a fine choice.

OTOH, I have no words to describe what I think of the pass.
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#17 User is offline   Phil 

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Posted 2011-January-26, 15:51

View PostTimG, on 2011-January-26, 09:47, said:

I can't see the hand on my iPod, but I guess pass.


I can't see the hands on my Blackberry Curve either. Maybe we need to enable javascript or something?

I can see the hand on my PC and I double.
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#18 User is offline   Free 

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Posted 2011-January-27, 06:58

Smartphones suck, so I'll just bid 1NT.
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#19 User is offline   peachy 

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Posted 2011-January-27, 12:02

After two bidding opponents and a passing partner, I don't like 1NT natural anyway, and even if that were the method we play, I would not bid 1NT with this hand. Double shows spades at least, the flaw in the club length is acceptable.
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#20 User is offline   Hanoi5 

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Posted 2011-January-27, 15:14

Double. I prefer 1NT in the sandwich position to show a distribuitional take-out of the unbid suits.

 wyman, on 2012-May-04, 09:48, said:

Also, he rates to not have a heart void when he leads the ♥3.


 rbforster, on 2012-May-20, 21:04, said:

Besides playing for fun, most people also like to play bridge to win


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