[jillybean]

---

This auction was terrible but I'm not sure how we would find 6♣
1♣:2♣
2♥:3♣
4♣:?

[pooltuna]

jillybean, on 2011-January-17, 12:05, said:

---

This auction was terrible but I'm not sure how we would find 6♣
1♣:2♣
2♥:3♣
4♣:?

hopefully South's 2♣ call denied a 4 card major. Nevertheless North needs a ♦ splinter call which is short of 3NT (BTW I really, really hate the 3NT bid with a stiff ♦ but it would at least be tolerable if it was an A or K)

[cherdano]

jillybean, on 2011-January-17, 12:05, said:

---

This auction was terrible but I'm not sure how we would find 6♣
1♣:2♣
2♥:3♣
4♣:?

North should splinter with 3♦ over 2♣, if that is how South would understand it. This should make South very excited and the auction could go 3H-3S-4C-4H-4N-5♥-6♣ if you play 1430 RKCB here. (If you play 3014 it is more tricky as a 5♦ reply would put you too high. In that case South should bid 4S instead, in case North would understand it as last train, over which North could probably bid 6♣.)

If North cannot show his shortness, this slam will be impossible to bid with accuracy.

[hrothgar]

jillybean, on 2011-January-17, 12:05, said:

---

This auction was terrible but I'm not sure how we would find 6♣
1♣:2♣
2♥:3♣
4♣:?

Hi Kathryn

4441 hands can present real problems for standard methods (there's a reason that odd opening bids like the Roman 2D opening were developed). Now-a-days, folks really don't seem to use these specialized openings that much, however, that doesn't mean that the original awkward rebid problems have gone away.

First things first: What does a 2C raise show (I'm going to assume that your playing inverted minors since there was an alert)

Next, you need to determine what a reverse after an inverted minor raise shows.
A lot of good players use this bid to show stoppers (placing a priority on investigating NT)
Others play that the bid shows shape (prioritizing strain).

I prefer towards the latter interpretation, so I'd rebid 2H (like you did)
[Unlike a "real" reverse, I don't think it makes sense to insist that Clubs are longer than hearts here, however, the 2♥ bid should promise 4 hearts and 4+ Clubs).

I like the 3♣ rebid, however, 3♠ might be better than 4♣

[losercover]

We need to add minorwood to our card. If it was there I would bid 4C. The hand has first or second round controls in all suits. Over a 4NT response, you could pass, bid 5C or 6C.

If you splinter over 2C, there isn't a lot of room to cue bid before either signing off or being forced to the 6 level and you would definitely get a a diamond lead against a NT contract.

[jillybean]

Hi,

2♣ was inverted, gf (click to see the explantion)

I don't play that 2♣ denies a 4cM, it tells partner I have a gf club raise (5+) but it does not deny a 4cM, should it? If the auction starts 1C:1H 1N how will I ever show 5+ clubs?

After 1m:2m I like to show shape, so 2♥ will be 4. Agree, 2♥ it not a reverse in the sense that it does not show longer clubs.

I'm not sure of 3♠/3♣. If we then correct 3N to 4♣ partner should know we are showing ♠ control and interested in a ♣ slam? With discussion, I would be suporting clubs at this stage.

3♦ splinter is great, if discussed.

I don't fully understand last train.

[jillybean]

losercover, on 2011-January-17, 12:50, said:

We need to add minorwood to our card. If it was there I would bid 4C. The hand has first or second round controls in all suits. Over a 4NT response, you could pass, bid 5C or 6C.

If you splinter over 2C, there isn't a lot of room to cue bid before either signing off or being forced to the 6 level and you would definitely get a a diamond lead against a NT contract.

We've removed minorwood from our card, but we do have kickback btw, neither of us have 1st or 2nd round control in all suits to be able to pass 4N.

After a 3♦ splinter, room to cue bid isn't a problem. This should never be played in NT.

[losercover]

How many times was this hand played? I'm guessing 3NT was the final contract most of the time and it made more than 3NT. In your orginal auction, a major suit lead is going to be made unless the leading hand has a solid diamond sequence.

[Fluffy]

Splinter!!!

[Cyberyeti]

We'd bid:

1♣-2♣ 1♣ and 2♣ both show 4+ cards, 2♣ is inverted
2♦-3♦ Artificial enquiry better than min: 5+♣, 4♦ 13+
3N-4♣ : partner has values in clubs, hearts and spades if he's short in diamonds this will play badly in 3N and well in clubs
4♦-5♣ keycard: 2 with
6♣

At worst this is on the A♥ being right but most of the time it's near laydown.

At pairs, it's possible the auction would stop in 3N, but at teams I think it would go as above.

[blackshoe]

I agree with Fluffy. Something like:

---

4♣ is Minorwood. If you prefer Kickback, bid 4♦, reply 4NT (two without).

[Cascade]

As others have said - Splinter.

I guess you need discussion but:

1m 2m
3x (jump)

can be defined as a splinter then it is easy for south to imagine the hands are extremely well fitting. After which it will be hard if not impossible to stop below slam by any sensible methods.

Note that a splinter while helping partner evaluate also confirms that we do have a clubs fit. All of this is good news to south.

[jillybean]

losercover, on 2011-January-17, 13:52, said:

How many times was this hand played? I'm guessing 3NT was the final contract most of the time and it made more than 3NT. In your orginal auction, a major suit lead is going to be made unless the leading hand has a solid diamond sequence.

Yes, most tables played 3N = +1 or +2 and most of them got there by bidding 3N/1♣

[jillybean]

I will be playing 3♦ as splinter , thanks.
My regular partner probably would have spintered and hopefuly I would have worked it out

[the hog]

1C 2C is fine
What are your continuations? 3D is a splinter for us. Now you will easily get to the slam.

[mgoetze]

jillybean, on 2011-January-17, 13:34, said:

I don't play that 2♣ denies a 4cM, it tells partner I have a gf club raise (5+) but it does not deny a 4cM, should it? If the auction starts 1C:1H 1N how will I ever show 5+ clubs?

Maybe it should! The most important thing is of course that you both agree whether it does...

Uhm... 1♣-1♥-1NT-3♣? (Given that you are playing XYZ.)

[jillybean]

Is there a minimum for a splinter after 1m:2m or is it purely shape showing?

1♣:2♣
3♦

[Phil]

jillybean, on 2011-January-17, 19:47, said:

Is there a minimum for a splinter after 1m:2m or is it purely shape showing?

1♣:2♣
3♦

If 2♣ is GF, then I play 3♦ doesn't show extras.

If 2♣ is inv + then I play it does.

[P_Marlowe]

After an inv. raise, North has an easy 3D bid,
a bid that will wake up South, who wont stop 6C.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[P_Marlowe]

jillybean, on 2011-January-17, 19:47, said:

Is there a minimum for a splinter after 1m:2m or is it purely shape showing?

1♣:2♣
3♦

most likely you should limit the hand strength to a min opener
or considerable extras.
In the end, you need to be happy, if Partner signs of in game,
showing a min gf raise.

This is similar to splinters after a 1 level opening, splinters are
usually restricted to approx. 13-15 (mod. the rage slightly, if the
numbers are too high.

After a 1 level opening - responder showes fit an a min. opener, with
a shortage.
In the given seq. opener showes fit and a min opener with a shortage.

If you really want - you can differentiate strength, you have a cheap
splinter (3x) and a more expensive one (4x), or you differentiate
between single or void.

With kind regards
Marlowe