Help
As I said in the other thread, in this sequence:
1♥ - 1♠
3♠
it seems useful to play 4m as a "help suit slam try" and 3N as a shortness ask. When I started playing, the auction 1♠ - 3♠ - 3N was a shortness ask and known as a Mathe Asking Bid.
It seems this ask can be extended to a few other sequences like:
1♠ - 3♣ / ♦ (Bergen) - 3N
1♣ - 1♥ - 1♠ - 3♠ (xyz setting, so 3♠ is forcing) - 3N
What other circumstances do you play 3N as a shortness ask?
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Extended MAB
#1
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Posted 2011-January-13, 18:44
Hi y'all!
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Winner - BBO Challenge bracket #6 - February, 2017.
#2
- Andy Bowles
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Posted 2011-January-14, 03:49
In your last sequence, don't you need 3NT as serious/non-serious? I suggest these rules for all situations where you have a known 8-card major-suit fit:
- Both hands unlimited: 3NT = non-serious slam try
- Bidder is unlimited, partner is limited: 3NT = shortage ask
- Bidder is limited, partner is unlimited: waiting, in case partner is about to make a slam try (but unenlightened partnerships may play it as natural)
- Both hands limited: natural
Remembering these rules will be easier than remembering a list of sequences where it occurs.
- Both hands unlimited: 3NT = non-serious slam try
- Bidder is unlimited, partner is limited: 3NT = shortage ask
- Bidder is limited, partner is unlimited: waiting, in case partner is about to make a slam try (but unenlightened partnerships may play it as natural)
- Both hands limited: natural
Remembering these rules will be easier than remembering a list of sequences where it occurs.
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
#3
- Alchemist
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Posted 2011-January-14, 14:32
I liked Mathe when I first started playing seriously (and at that time, I used it after 1M-2M, 1M-3M, 1X-1M-2M, and 1X-1M-3M.)
It has been crowded off my card by two things: one being the greater need to use 3NT to sharpen up the precision of cuebidding auctions -- my preference here being 3NT to deny CA so that 4C=shows CA denies DA, 4D = shows CADA denies hearts, etc, rather than Serious/Non-serious, but either way, it seems like a more frequently needed use for 3NT... and the other being the variety of other ways to find out about singletons. I quit using Mathe after 1M-2M after I started playing two-way game tries; I quit using it after 1M-3M when I started playing a variation on Bergen where 1H-2S and 1H-3C distinguish between raises with and without a singleton respectively. And after 1H-1S-3S, in your system you hardly need it; help in one minor is pretty much equivalent to shortness in the other. Even so I am not sure I am willing to give up cuebidding at the 4-level to make help-suit type tries.
My set of rules might look a little different than gnasher's but a short list like that is a good idea, once you settle on some basic priorities.
It has been crowded off my card by two things: one being the greater need to use 3NT to sharpen up the precision of cuebidding auctions -- my preference here being 3NT to deny CA so that 4C=shows CA denies DA, 4D = shows CADA denies hearts, etc, rather than Serious/Non-serious, but either way, it seems like a more frequently needed use for 3NT... and the other being the variety of other ways to find out about singletons. I quit using Mathe after 1M-2M after I started playing two-way game tries; I quit using it after 1M-3M when I started playing a variation on Bergen where 1H-2S and 1H-3C distinguish between raises with and without a singleton respectively. And after 1H-1S-3S, in your system you hardly need it; help in one minor is pretty much equivalent to shortness in the other. Even so I am not sure I am willing to give up cuebidding at the 4-level to make help-suit type tries.
My set of rules might look a little different than gnasher's but a short list like that is a good idea, once you settle on some basic priorities.
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