[jillybean]

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[mike777]

x but I never get these right.

I guess pard may have:

x......Axx.....AKxxx...AKxx

[Fluffy]

on defence we make 0 spades, 1-3♥, 0-1♦, 0-2♣, very likelly 100, but possibly a make also.

on offence its harder, I think partner has 0265, losing 1♥ and 1♣, butmigh just as well be lucky and make slam, or they might redefend (in my dreams), I would bid because I won't get rich defeding

[nigel_k]

I would also double though I wouldn't expect mike777's example hand.

[mtvesuvius]

I'll bid 6♦. This feels like it will be on a hook, but we don't rate to beat 5♠ very many, and if the ♣K is offside, they may even be making. Partner is probably 0265 or 0355.

[jillybean]

Here's the full hand

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[han]

I would have doubled with partner's hand, instead of bidding 5C.

[Siegmund]

I double and lead a club, without seriously considering bidding on. It looks like at the table I will be wrong, both for not bidding on and for not starting hearts, which partner may have a hard time switching to.

I do think partner can have quite a bit less in high cards than he has here, and won't be surprised to get this decision wrong half the time in the future.

[jillybean]

To Han (edited)
Do you double to take the sure + rather than gamble the unknown result?

[JLOGIC]

Sorry, I don't understand the comments about doubling. Jilly, does it really seem like a sure plus? Partner couldn't double 5S, and we have a trick. On top of that we have FIVE of his primary suit, which is negative defense since it will make his honors not cash (example, AKxxxx becomes no tricks, which partner would not expect since all we did was preference).

Obviously with A AKQ AQ I think partner should double 5S himself, he's the one who has 5S beat. I would not double 6S. The person who doubles should be the one with the tricks imo!

[jillybean]

JLOGIC, on 2011-January-13, 16:56, said:

Sorry, I don't understand the comments about doubling. Jilly, does it really seem like a sure plus? Partner couldn't double 5S, and we have a trick. On top of that we have FIVE of his primary suit, which is negative defense since it will make his honors not cash (example, AKxxxx becomes no tricks, which partner would not expect since all we did was preference).

Obviously with A AKQ AQ I think partner should double 5S himself, he's the one who has 5S beat. I would not double 6S. The person who doubles should be the one with the tricks imo!

Sorry it wasn't clear, my comment was in response to Han's post saying that he (north) would double 4♠ instead of bidding 5♣'s, taking the sure +.
I had no idea if this was a forcing pass situation or not (casual partner). I was not confident that we would set 5♠, I knew partner had a ♠ void, we had a double fit in the minors with a 10+ card ♦ fit so bid 6♦. Perhaps on a wing and a prayer but this time it worked.

[MinorKid]

IMO it is quite likely a forcing pass (same effect as a take_out)

if i were north i would had bid 1♦ *** 5♣ *** x or P for take_out depending on agreement.
With this agreement through, as South, i would had chosen to defend against the Doubled contract (North could be weaker).
Even if this sequence shows 19+5+2+1=27DP there is some combinations which make less tricks.
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South have no fitting honors and he'd hate it. He knew one or both of the minor suits is not solid, where otherwise north would surely open 2♣. Add the ♣J to north and he would still open 2♣.

[MinorKid]

JLOGIC, on 2011-January-13, 16:56, said:

Sorry, I don't understand the comments about doubling. Jilly, does it really seem like a sure plus? Partner couldn't double 5S, and we have a trick. On top of that we have FIVE of his primary suit, which is negative defense since it will make his honors not cash (example, AKxxxx becomes no tricks, which partner would not expect since all we did was preference).

Obviously with A AKQ AQ I think partner should double 5S himself, he's the one who has 5S beat. I would not double 6S. The person who doubles should be the one with the tricks imo!

In this high level imo wheather or not we make our own contract is a bigger concern. I'd focus on north's strengh and fitting honors for him.
I'd save stuffs like shapes, TTE etc. at lower level competition.

[the_dude]

Interesting hand.

Funny that no one has mentioned scoring...

At IMPS I bid 6D because it's too dangerous that one contract will make and the upside to X isn't there. At matchpoints I'm passing and going for the most likely plus score. I'm not doubling because partner doesn't have three triks and he already has 1 less diamond trick than he thinks he has.

Though with a regular partner I think this should be a forcing pass situation .. in which case I bid 6D.

Do you all consider this a forcing pass with your regular partners?

[han]

jillybean, on 2011-January-13, 19:36, said:

Sorry it wasn't clear, my comment was in response to Han's post saying that he (north) would double 4♠ instead of bidding 5♣'s, taking the sure +.

No, double is takeout. South would bid 5D.