[humilities]

---

We play Lawrence-style 2/1 where 3♣ is still forcing to game, 3♥ is an attempt to get to 3NT, and 4♣ now would be non-forcing.

How do you bid RKC for clubs? Is 4NT now RKC, regular blackwood, or Quantitative? Would a jump to 4♣ as his second bid have been this hand?

[Fluffy]

4♣ is forcing, specially when 3♣ is forcing to game

If it is not (wich is weird), you can bid 4♣ instead of 3♣ setting up trumps and forcing partner to cuebid

[whereagles]

This is a very easy judgement issue. After North bids 3♥, showing weakness there, South knows all his HCP are working and the only doubt remaining is whether to bid 6 or 7.

Thus 4♣ + 4NT. Or 4NT if you play that it's RKCB for clubs (some people define a default trump suit as the one where 4NT bidder showed 6+ cards).

[TWO4BRIDGE]

I agree with Da Flufster .

[Free]

I also think 4♣ should be forcing. But if it's not, then I guess we can bid 3♠ along the way. 6♠ also has some play and pays more

[mgoetze]

humilities, on 2011-January-06, 07:01, said:

We play Lawrence-style 2/1 where 3♣ is still forcing to game, 3♥ is an attempt to get to 3NT, and 4♣ now would be non-forcing.

How do you bid RKC for clubs? Is 4NT now RKC, regular blackwood, or Quantitative? Would a jump to 4♣ as his second bid have been this hand?

I would like to be playing that 4♣ is RKCB and 4NT is quantitative.

[Phil]

In typical 4♣ shows a slightly better suit I'm afraid.

If you play Minorwood in auctions like 1♣-2♣-4♣ or 1M - 2♣ - 4♣, then I think 4♣ in this auction would be KC asking. I don't particularly like minorwood; I'm just demonstrating that it should be read as such if you play it.

Slam should be bid here - minor suit small slams can be a little under 50%, and we exceed that.

[humilities]

We play 4♣ is not forcing here because we play 2/1 right off the Lawrence CD. In which case 4 of a minor is not forcing if: 1. Neither side has shown extra values, and 2) NT has been investigated and rejected. I think this auction meets both criteria.

Interesting that 4♣ is forcing for all of you. Maybe we should reevaluate our methods.

I like whereagles idea that 4NT is RKC for clubs for the reasons he stated. Thanks for that. I'm also coming to the conclusion that as long as we play 4♣ as not forcing, then the proper bid with this hand would have been 4♣ instead of 3♣.

[Phil]

humilities, on 2011-January-06, 10:52, said:

We play 4♣ is not forcing here because we play 2/1 right off the Lawrence CD. In which case 4 of a minor is not forcing if: 1. Neither side has shown extra values, and 2) NT has been investigated and rejected. I think this auction meets both criteria.

Interesting that 4♣ is forcing for all of you. Maybe we should reevaluate our methods.

I like whereagles idea that 4NT is RKC for clubs for the reasons he stated. Thanks for that. I'm also coming to the conclusion that as long as we play 4♣ as not forcing, then the proper bid with this hand would have been 4♣ instead of 3♣.

I don't have the Lawrence CD, but I have the book. A jump to 4♣ is definitely forcing. I'd agree with you that is 2/1 is a force only through 4 of a minor then the auction:

1♠ - 2♣
2♦ - 3♣
3♥ - 4♣

would not be forcing. As a matter of fact Lawrence originally advocated the 3♣ call in the above auction as NF.

I would encourage you to re-evaluate your methods, and simply make a 2/1 an unconditional game force. While it is true that you lose the occasional where we make exactly '4♣', your slam bidding becomes much easier. For instance, on the actual hand, what can you possibly bid over 3♥ if 4♣ isn't forcing? It becomes a difficult problem.

I do not agree with Whereagles that 4♣ is RKC. I much prefer quantitative (a 2326 18 count would fit - how can you bid this otherwise?).

[whereagles]

Phil, on 2011-January-06, 11:30, said:

I do not agree with Whereagles that 4♣ is RKC. I much prefer quantitative (a 2326 18 count would fit - how can you bid this otherwise?).

I think you meant 4NT. And yes, I agree quantitative is more adequate.

[A2003]

humilities, on 2011-January-06, 07:01, said:

---

We play Lawrence-style 2/1 where 3♣ is still forcing to game, 3♥ is an attempt to get to 3NT, and 4♣ now would be non-forcing.

How do you bid RKC for clubs? Is 4NT now RKC, regular blackwood, or Quantitative? Would a jump to 4♣ as his second bid have been this hand?

---

[TWO4BRIDGE]

humilities, on 2011-January-06, 07:01, said:

---

I've always questioned the use of 4NT as RKC for Cl.
You might as well just bid slam, if you "feel" right about it. ONE key card ( 03 14, etc ) gets the 5D reply.... so you have to bid slam anyway:

1S - 2C! ( 2/1 GF )
2D - 4C ( sets trump and asks for cheapest cuebid )
4S ( surprise, surprise... NO red suit Controls, so have to have "stuff" in Spades for opening )
..... - 6C

[mgoetze]

TWO4BRIDGE, on 2011-January-06, 12:59, said:

I've always questioned the use of 4NT as RKC for Cl.
You might as well just bid slam, if you "feel" right about it. ONE key card ( 03 14, etc ) gets the 5D reply.... so you have to bid slam anyway:

Well, some people play 1430...

[JLOGIC]

Playing 1S-2C-2D-3C-3H-4C as NF seems reasonable. You might just have no heart stopper and it's time to bail out.

Anyways, definitely like a jump to 4C on round 2.

[P_Marlowe]

humilities, on 2011-January-06, 10:52, said:

We play 4♣ is not forcing here because we play 2/1 right off the Lawrence CD. In which case 4 of a minor is not forcing if: 1. Neither side has shown extra values, and 2) NT has been investigated and rejected. I think this auction meets both criteria.

Interesting that 4♣ is forcing for all of you. Maybe we should reevaluate our methods.

I like whereagles idea that 4NT is RKC for clubs for the reasons he stated. Thanks for that. I'm also coming to the conclusion that as long as we play 4♣ as not forcing, then the proper bid with this hand would have been 4♣ instead of 3♣.

The alternative to the jump the round before is to bid 4H.

4H cant be natural, and having already denied 2 spades, (we have 2 spades, but
partner cant know that), 4 heats, 4 diamond, I think that the logic of the system
indicates, that 4H showes a selfsufficent club suit.

Of course making the bid undiscussed, is asking for trouble.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[xxhong]

You can probably play 1S 3C as setting up trumps in C. Otherwise, you have to bid 2C then 4C to set up trumps.