[sceptic]

Scoring: IMP

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West North East South

 -     -     Pass  1♥
 Pass  3♣    Pass  3♥
 Pass  4♥    Pass  Pass
 


We Play reverse bergen and jacoby 2nt.

P opened 1 heart, I then had to make a decision, my hand did not fall easily into a catogory, I had to make a decision about what to bid.

so I elected to bid 3!C 10 - 12 and 4 trumps (I did consider jacoby 2nt, but I thought 3 clubs was a safer option)

my p answered 3 heart (I should pass)

LOTT says safe at 4 level, so that is where I went

would you trust your p again if he did this to you?

Happy to hear all your thoughts on this please any part of it

[sceptic]

I never considered 1 heart 4 heart as that I bid with next to nothing at all

[Free]

I would bid either 2NT or 4♥. Ok, you have 11HCP, but you can only use 7 of them on your own. You have however a GF hand. Biggest question you have to ask yourself: do you see slam? If not, just bid 4♥, otherwise go through 2NT...

I personally would bid 2NT, but many might consider otherwise.

What use is it to play Bergen-raises (inverted or not) with support if you're going to bid 4M anyway?? Bergen is a constructive raise, usually opener will consider it as invitational opposite some HCP-range.

[EricK]

sceptic, on Aug 28 2004, 06:18 PM, said:

Scoring: IMP

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West North East South

- - Pass 1♥
Pass 3♣ Pass 3♥
Pass 4♥ Pass Pass



We Play reverse bergen and jacoby 2nt.

P opened 1 heart, I then had to make a decision, my hand did not fall easily into a catogory, I had to make a decision about what to bid.

so I elected to bid 3!C 10 - 12 and 4 trumps (I did consider jacoby 2nt, but I thought 3 clubs was a safer option)

my p answered 3 heart (I should pass)

LOTT says safe at 4 level, so that is where I went

would you trust your p again if he did this to you?

Happy to hear all your thoughts on this please any part of it

Just because LOTT says it is safe, doesn't mean that is where you have to get to.

Maybe 3♠ is the par contract and 4♥ is down one. Then, if the opps aren't going to bid to 3♠, you are better off in 3♥.

Maybe LOTT is off by one or more. Certainly your minor honours outside ♥ would suggest it.

Eric

[hrothgar]

North's hand is too weak to game force.

North has 8 losers, sterile shape, and an abundance of quacks.
The Jack of hearts and even the Queen are largely wasted values opposite Kxxxx in dummy.

If you can bid 4H as a preemptive raise, this is appealing.
Otherwise, I like the 3♣ limit raise.

Note that South has a six loser hand and should jump to 4♥ over 3♣...

[Free]

Richard,

do you really consider AQJxx as a loser opposite a 5 card suit and opening value??? No wonder LTC isn't a good evaluation method I only see 7 losers (max 3 losers per suit) in the North hand, and with the extra-trumps adjustment you have at most 6 losers.

[hrothgar]

Free, on Aug 28 2004, 09:43 PM, said:

Richard,

do you really consider AQJxx as a loser opposite a 5 card suit and opening value??? No wonder LTC isn't a good evaluation method I only see 7 losers (max 3 losers per suit) in the North hand, and with the extra-trumps adjustment you have at most 6 losers.

The hand has plenty of positive and negative adjustments.
However, it isn't one that particularly appeals to me.

Note that I prefer a preemptive raise to 4H over a limit raise to 3H.
Forcing to game based on strength strikes me as poor hand evaluation...

[pclayton]

Pard has a 4♥ call over your Rev Bergen 3♣ raise. 6 loser hand should carry on to game opposite a limit raise, especially with 9 trump.

If pard signed off in 3, I'd respect the decision. Sure the North hand has 5 trump, but no stiffs, and marginal ODR with the outside quacks, so a deduction is fine.

By the way, playing 2/1, there ARE some hands in my opinion that are worth a Bergen Limit raise, followed by a push to 4♥. These fall into the classification of hands too strong for a direct 4♥, but not enough umph for a forcing raise. The subject hand doesn't qualify though.

[paulhar]

Looks like you've already won the hand when the opponents didn't get in there with their spades - 3 is cold and 4S by East makes on most constructions.

In any event, I like your 3C but would have passed 3H. South is close to a 4H bid but since it's an aceless dead minimum (albeit the singleton) and the opps haven't bid spades (which makes it more likely partner has wastage there), I would only bid 3H as South.

[ReginaldF]

A simple question, why didn't East open the biding

ReginaldF

[keylime]

Simple question to the question: Why does East have almost have the deck?

[sceptic]

I think east was cheating, but I have no proof, thats the trouble with playing in the patnership tables, your opps can be quite devoius at times

[paulg]

I guess I'd like to know a bit more about your response structure, like what is 1♥-3♠?

I really dislike a Jacoby 2NT response - this should be reserved for hands that you will not be embarrassed about if partner makes a slam try. With no real cards outside the heart suit this is not an appropriate hand.

3♣ is a reasonable choice, however I would respect partner's sign off, especially in a partnership that opens light.

4♥ is a reasonable choice too, and I prefer this to starting with 3♣ and bidding 4♥ over the sign off.

In my regular partnership I can bid 4♦ to show a preemptive raise with some values, which fits this hand really well. This is because we use 1M-3OM [OM=other major] to show a limited hand with 4-card support and a singleton, and strong splinters use Jacoby. This also frees the 4♣ response, which we use as a balanced high card raise with super trumps and poor controls outside of the trump suit.

So, I think your question is not what to bid here, but how comprehensive is your response structure to 1M?

And, unless you put in lots of work, it is inevitable that there will be hands that are difficult to bid, and then you just have to make reasonable choices.

Would I trust you again? Did she trust you before?