[kfay]

Frankly, I wouldn't have raised spades in the first place. Isn't where the whole problem stems from?

North has lots of really nice clubs!

[whereagles]

JLOGIC, on 2011-January-04, 12:28, said:

1. Raising to 3 so often makes your range ridiculously wide, and makes it tough on partner. Despite what some on this forum will tell you, it will make your auctions harder.

(...)

2. BTW Meckwell do not raise with 3 except 3451 (in a precision style) and many/(most?) top europeans do not do it either.

2. I would say most.

1. Raising with 3 is to be done only on a minimum unbalanced hand with singleton, i.e. 5431 or 6331 (broken 6 card suit - not the case here). With a medium or better hand you have other options instead of the raise (54s bid 2nd suit or reverse, 6331s bid 3 of the suit).

The point of the 3 card raise is making pard's life easier when he's invitational with 5 card M or when opps butt-in. You can debate its merits with Robson/Segal, since that was the only book where I've seen the idea. From their examples, they seem to play it as I mentioned above.

[whereagles]

kenberg, on 2011-January-04, 12:01, said:

Perhaps a forcing and shape asking 2NT over 2S would be better, but we were not doing that.

But you need to, if you play 3 card raises.

[kenberg]

whereagles, on 2011-January-04, 13:04, said:

But you need to, if you play 3 card raises.

Well, not quite a need. At least not for casual partnerships.
1♣ 1♠
2♠ 2NT

It's possible to play this as passable, if opener holds minimal values and a shape so that he was on the edge as to raising 1♠ to 2♠ or re-bidding 1NT. Not all calls are clear cut and this could be an "OK, I almost re-bid 1NT myself and if you have 11 points or so and four spades, maybe 2NT is as good a spot as any since between us we lack game values and I lack extreme shape". With a more shapely hand of course he goes on in one way or another, describing his hand naturally. I am not claiming that an expert partnership should play this way but its serviceable with casuals.


On the posted hands I don't want to be playing any number of NT but presumably I wouldn't be. Further, when partner bids 3♣ over 2NT I have the added information that partner could have passed 2NT but didn't, making a stiff more likely. Of course one could say that I can never read him for the actual hand since he would rebid 2♣ if he held it. Still, I can read him for more shape than if 2NT forced him to bid whether he wanted to or not.

Not that it has any meaning whatsoever but this was an acbl speedball and I actually took 8 tricks in NT. A diamond was led, I took my ace and led a club. They took the club ace, cashed four diamonds, and led a spade! Just call me Lamont (Cranston). I did say that this has no meaning, but it is a fact nonetheless.

[Free]

Imo North shouldn't raise on a 3 card with this hand. He has a much better alternative (2♣, he has a good 6 card suit). 3 card raises for me are only ok when the alternatives look worse, which is not the case here. But even after the raise, South shouldn't suggest 3NT. North will only raise on a 3 card suit when NT is not attractive because of some red singleton or small doubleton, and South's holding in the reds is just not good enough. In all other cases North raised on a 4 card suit, which makes 4♠ look more attractive.