[mgoetze]

jillybean, on 2010-December-30, 21:26, said:

Does anyone have a list of questions they go through with a new partner? I started one a while ago but it isn't very comprehensive.

Here's what I tried last time. I didn't put much thought into it. Also it was already clear we wouldn't be playing 2/1. :-(

1. Minor openings?
a) Better Minor
b) 4 diamonds
c) 4 diamonds except 4432

2. After 1♣ opening?
a) Up-the-line (Always show 4 diamonds before 4 hearts/spades)
b) Walsh (Show 4/5 diamonds before 4 hearts/spades only if GF)
c) MAFIA (Always show the major before 4/5 diamonds)

3. The bidding starts 1♣-1♥-1NT. a) Can opener still have 4 spades? B) What do 2♣ and 2♦ mean now?

4. What do the 2♠, 2NT, and 3x responses to a 1NT opening mean?

5. What does 1NT-2♣-2♥-2♠ mean? 1NT-2♣-2♦-2♥?

6. What are the answers to ace-asking bids and how do we follow up?

7. In which situations is 4♣/4♦ an ace-asking bid?

8. The bidding begins 1♦-1♥-2NT, what do responders' 3-level bids mean?

9. I open 1♠, you answer 2♣ or 2♦. How many clubs/diamonds have you promised?

10. I open 1♠, you answer 3♣. What do you have? Is it the same if you are a passed hand?

Competitive Bidding

11. You open 1♥, opp bids 2♣. What do I do with
a) an invitational hand with 3 hearts,
b) an invitational hand with 4 hearts,
c) a preemptive raise to the 3-level,
d) a noninvitational raise to the 3-level with points in the other suits ("mixed raise"),
e) a strong hand with long diamonds, which would like to play 3NT if you have a stopper,
f) a weak hand with long diamonds, which wants to play 2♦ and nothing else,
g) a hand with 4 hearts and 5 good diamonds, which wants to force to game?

12. Do we play Lebensohl/Rubensohl/similar? If so, when?

13. I open 1♥, you respond 1NT, opponent comes in with 2♦ and I double. Penalty or takeout?

14. Opponent opens 1♥, you bid 1♠, other opp raises to 2♥ and I double. How many spades can/must I have?

15. Opps bid 1♥-4♥, I double. Penalty or takeout? How about 1♠-4♠? And what if you overcalled 2♣?

[Gerben42]

Lovely misunderstandings to avoid are:

1NT (2♥) Double = ?

(1♣) Pass (1♥) 1NT = ?

[mgoetze]

Gerben42, on 2010-December-31, 06:14, said:

Lovely misunderstandings to avoid are:

1NT (2♥) Double = ?

(1♣) Pass (1♥) 1NT = ?

The first is surely worth making sure that your partner agrees it is takeout. The second one is for me an obvious "natural if undiscussed", are there really people who would believe they play sandwich/whatever without any discussion?

[wank]

you should expand the lebensohl question to include reverses imo

[Cascade]

Some comments

1. The questions will vary from partner to partner depending on your relative experience and background (system and conventions commonly played).

2. Fill out a convention card and use it not merely as an end but also to prompt discussion about related auctions and developments.

3. Discussion will vary depending on your expectations for a partnership - casual game, start of a potential long term partnership or something in between.

4. Devote a substantial amount of your time to competitive bidding. Around half of your auctions will be competitive and I suspect a significantly larger proportion of your problem auctions will be competitive.

5. For casual partnerships avoid detailed discussions of relatively infrequent auctions. Indeed even for practiced partnerships infrequency can be a problem.

I have many memories of partners for casual games spouting forth about the details of their pet method and me turning off thinking this is so incredibly unlikely to come up.

6. Generalize rules where possibile so that similar rules and styles apply in similar auctions. Sometimes then during the game you will be able to extrapolate intelligently in auctions that you have not discussed.

One specific situation that has not been discussed by others as far as I could see was what happens after 1NT (Dbl). This is important. More so if you play a weak NT. Related to this is other interference over 1NT especially situations in which SYSTEM ON may apply.

[Fluffy]

1430 3014
(1♣)-1NT-(pass)-2♥
1♠-(double)-2♦
(1♣)-2♦

These are the top 4 that have always made me lose a bunch of points with new partners, and so I ask every of them first.

EDIT: I mean for a casual partnership

[matmat]

Cascade, on 2010-December-31, 12:36, said:

3. Discussion will vary depending on your expectations for a partnership - casual game, start of a potential long term partnership or something in between.

Frankly, I think this should be the first question asked, or at least an attempt should be made to answer it yourself:
"Is this a serious partnership, or are we just playing the occasional pickup?"

Getting too deep into a systems discussion with someone you'll play with twice a year seems too deep for me.

[mgoetze]

Cascade, on 2010-December-31, 12:36, said:

1. The questions will vary from partner to partner depending on your relative experience and background (system and conventions commonly played).

Right, for instance I didn't need to ask the guy whom I sent this questions in post 1...

Fluffy, on 2010-December-31, 12:47, said:

(1♣)-1NT-(pass)-2♥

...about this, because in Germany, "everyone" plays System On.

[nige1]

Cascade, on 2010-December-31, 12:36, said:

Some comments
1. The questions will vary from partner to partner depending on your relative experience and background (system and conventions commonly played).
2. Fill out a convention card and use it not merely as an end but also to prompt discussion about related auctions and developments.
3. Discussion will vary depending on your expectations for a partnership - casual game, start of a potential long term partnership or something in between.
4. Devote a substantial amount of your time to competitive bidding. Around half of your auctions will be competitive and I suspect a significantly larger proportion of your problem auctions will be competitive.
5. For casual partnerships avoid detailed discussions of relatively infrequent auctions. Indeed even for practiced partnerships infrequency can be a problem.
I have many memories of partners for casual games spouting forth about the details of their pet method and me turning off thinking this is so incredibly unlikely to come up.
6. Generalize rules where possibile so that similar rules and styles apply in similar auctions. Sometimes then during the game you will be able to extrapolate intelligently in auctions that you have not discussed.
One specific situation that has not been discussed by others as far as I could see was what happens after 1NT (Dbl). This is important. More so if you play a weak NT. Related to this is other interference over 1NT especially situations in which SYSTEM ON may apply.

Good advice, especially about a default convention-card competitive auctions. IMO, the first thing to discuss is

Leads, discards and signals. eg When to unblock or signal count or signal attitude? What do honour signals mean? Smith peters (peter or not for a switch?) After the first trick, do you show current or original count? How do you signal when dummy has a singleton?

An auction that has recently cost me a lot with casual partners is
(1N) _X (2♥) _X: Is the second double penalty or take-out
In another thread, there is this an auction like this
1C (_P) 1N (2♦)
_X: Penalty or takeout?
IMO, both doubles are best played as take-out or competitive rather than penalty

[Phil]

It depends on the level of the partner, how much time we have, and how much I think I will be playing with this partner in the future.

The cc is mostly self-explanatory. Specific questions I try to ask that the cc doesn't really cover are:

1. Is 2N forcing after a minor suit single raise?
2. What are jumps in 2/1 sequences?
3. In what instances do support doubles not apply?
4. When we double a 1N overcall, how high of a force are we in? Similarly if we double a weak NT.

[mike777]

fwiw

I thought the number one issue I would ask was what do you open on?

I can play most of BWS if I just know what you open on.

---


Are there a hundred minor side issues..of course but lets focus on number one for starters.

[FrancesHinden]

As others have said, it depends so much on what the expectations are for a partnership. If you are playing reasonably seriously but only occasionally, the simplest thing to do is for one player to say to the other "Tell me what you would like to play and send me the convention card/ system notes in advance and then I'll ask any obvious questions". Typically the stronger player says that to the weaker,but if you are similar standard then whoever has a suitable previously-filled-out and notated card can produce it.

If you are aiming at a long-term, serious, partnership then the list of questions will be very long. So I suppose we are talking about something in the middle....

As cascade and others have said, it does help hugely if you have similar backgrounds, or if you know enough about your partner's background that you will have a good idea of style. I once played 48 boards with a (now getting on a bit) well known English expert with almost no discussion and no misunderstandings, because I assumed we were playing 1980s style Acol which we both knew (and which has lots of natural bidding in it).

To pick a few things at random, I've got no need to ask a new English partner whether to play nmf, xyz or whatever, because I know they are virtually unplayed here - if we have a quick conversation, the question will be 'simple checkback, 2-way checkback, or natural?' But I will want to ask if 4th suit forcing is FG or INV at the 2-level, as both are common. And I will need to ask what 1m - (1H) - x means as there are two very common approaches. Phil's third question "when do support doubles not apply?" is not something you'd ask an English partner... as the initial assumption is that you aren't playing them.

So it's difficult to come up with a list of questions that will work for everyone.
But a few important things:

- Agree some general principles - for example, I like to agree that "if it's not discussed, it's natural" which makes e.g. some of mgoetze's questions unnecessary. It also solves lots of the possible problem auctions. That can be extended to "in an uncontested auction, if you aren't certain, it's forcing; in a contested auction if you aren't certain, it's non-forcing"
- Agree opening and pre-empting style
- Don't forget leads (not just opening leads), signals, discards and style thereof
- Spend at least as much time on competitive bidding, particularly doubles (and doubling style)

[Free]

2NT structure may be important as well. Do you play puppet stayman or regular, what do you do with 5♠-4♥, what does 2NT-3♠ mean,...

[mgoetze]

Free, on 2011-January-05, 09:15, said:

2NT structure may be important as well. Do you play puppet stayman or regular, what do you do with 5♠-4♥, what does 2NT-3♠ mean,...

I dunno, I expect to survive the first 20 tournaments without talking about it at all. I doubt anyone would assume puppet if undiscussed. Of course some people like puppet and agree it, a matter of two half-sentences, and that's fine.

[mtvesuvius]

I have played a session of bridge with someone after asking 10 questions:
1. What is our carding/Smith?
2. What do we do when the opponents open 1N?
3. 1430 or 3014?
4. What do we do for our minor suit keycard?
5. What is our major suit raise structure?
6. What is your pre-emptive style?
7. 1 way or 2 way NMF?
8. Sandwich NT always or just by a passed hand?
9. What is 1M - (P) - 1N - (2D) - X?
10. What do we play after 1M - (X)?

These are essential questions, the rest is all just details, and generally unnecessary IMO, especially in a one time partnership.

For a more serious partnership, there are tons of situations, but one I find myself asking a lot nowadays is "What is 1m-2m-2N, and 1m-2m-3N?". Many competitive auctions become a lot easier if you share your partner's style of bidding and theory... For me this is a very big problem, since I consider myself fairly modern in my bidding theory/style, and many of my partners are much more old fashioned. This style difference may not seem to matter, but it really does affect competitive decisions, and don't get me started on forcing passes...

Anyway, I think playing a few "test" sessions to get a feel for each other's style is a good way to get a feel for whether a serious partnership will work or not.

[IdiotVig]

mike777, on 2010-December-31, 18:51, said:

I thought the number one issue I would ask was what do you open on?

This. How much time do you get before a session to inquire about methods? I find you'll get a lot of mileage from asking these three questions:

1.) What are the minimum hand requirements to open in 1st/2nd?
2.) What's your overcalling style like?
3.) What's your preemptive style like?

You'd be surprised how many auctions are uncovered by getting specific answers to these, rather than name-dropping conventions for a first-time partnership.

[ggwhiz]

Number 1 with a bullet is defensive carding.

Highest frequency and missing here and from many profiles.

[mgoetze]

IdiotVig, on 2011-January-10, 08:35, said:

This. How much time do you get before a session to inquire about methods? I find you'll get a lot of mileage from asking these three questions:

1.) What are the minimum hand requirements to open in 1st/2nd?
2.) What's your overcalling style like?
3.) What's your preemptive style like?

You'd be surprised how many auctions are uncovered by getting specific answers to these, rather than name-dropping conventions for a first-time partnership.

Can't I just ask "how old are you" instead?

ggwhiz, on 2011-January-10, 10:21, said:

Number 1 with a bullet is defensive carding.

Highest frequency and missing here and from many profiles.

That wasn't on my list because where I live the default is actually pretty sensible...

[jolle226]

I think it's important to discuss some balancing auctions. How many points does 1♣-p-p-1NT show? 1♠-p-p-1NT? To which level is 1♥-p-p-2♥ forcing? Etc.

[mgoetze]

jolle226, on 2011-January-10, 15:47, said:

I think it's important to discuss some balancing auctions. How many points does 1♣-p-p-1NT show? 1♠-p-p-1NT?

No need - as Mr. Logic says, it will always be 11-14 / 11-16 regardless of what you discuss.
http://www.bridgebas...a-balancing-nt/
(As it happens those would be my preferred ranges anyway...)