[jillybean]

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your bid

[Phil]

I'm so clueless when it comes to NMF (which is why I play 2-way / xyz).

Doesn't 2♠ show a minimum? If thats the case, why are we thinking about slam?

[jillybean]

Phil, on 2010-December-30, 13:57, said:

I'm so clueless when it comes to NMF (which is why I play 2-way / xyz).

Doesn't 2♠ show a minimum? If thats the case, why are we thinking about slam?

Do you mean 2♠(min) is showing 3♠'s and 11-12 as opposed to 3♠ 13-14?
I don't believe everyone who plays nmf play these 2 way responses.

I do play xyz in my regular partnership.

[Phil]

jillybean, on 2010-December-30, 14:05, said:

Do you mean 2♠(min) is showing 3♠'s and 11-12 as opposed to 3♠ 13-14?

Yes.

[l milne]

Phil, on 2010-December-30, 14:16, said:

Yes.

Interesting. I never played this way, preferring to just reply at the lowest level (except with 2/3NT for obvious reasons) and let responder invite if necessary. This way, information about opener's strength isn't transmitted unnecessarily when responder has a GF.

What do you open with 44 in the minors jillybean? If it's 1♦, it seems pretty unlikely partner has a doubleton heart (3235 is the only distribution). There are some hands where we make slam but I don't think I would fault a 4♠ bid too much.

[mikeh]

Would 3♠ be forcing in your methods? If 2♠ could be any hand with 3 spades (and fewer than 4 hearts) it seems to me that 3♠ could be played as invitational.

Anyway, I wouldn't bid 3♠ even if it were forcing. I would just bid game. I will miss a few good slams but I will avoid overreaching on even more...at least, that's my sense of the matter.

If I could and did bid a forcing 3♠, what do I call over 4♣? 4♥ maybe....it pinpoints the diamond issue (for the opening leader as well as for partner) but I am still completely unlimited, and partner may feel that he has to bid past 4♠ with almost any hand containing a diamond control....and I need him to have a great hand with a diamond control...even a good hand like Jxx Qxx Axx AKxx is a borderline slam.


None of the other possibilities strike me as any more attractive.

[jillybean]

lead 3H

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East's hand would have been opened 1♦ in my reg partnership but this is a casual BBO partner.

Interesting that Phil raised the 2 way response to nmf. I hadn't heard of this at all until a month ago when a partner told me "everyone plays 2 way responses". I think this is when I was convinced that there is nothing standard in this game and you can't possibly sit down with someone and expect to play a card however simple, without misunderstandings.
Does anyone have a list of questions they go through with a new partner? I started one a while ago but it isn't very comprehensive.

[blackshoe]

Mary Paul wrote a book a while back called "Partnership Understandings". It's a checklist of questions. The whole book is close to a hundred pages, as I recall, but the first six or so cover the general facets of the system (whatever system you're playing). I think this book is out of print, but Mike Lawrence has a similar (but shorter!) one which last time I checked is still in print. You could start with that.

If you have a copy of Truscott's The Bidding Dictionary, he marked some calls with stars indicating how important it is to discuss them with partner, three stars being very important, two and one less so. That would be another good place to start. I keep meaning to pull those calls out of there and discuss them with my partners, but I haven't got a rountoit yet.

[the hog]

I would simply bid 4S over 2S. This is not a slam in which you want to be.

[BillHiggin]

the hog, on 2010-December-30, 21:58, said:

I would simply bid 4S over 2S. This is not a slam in which you want to be.

In fact, you only make 6♠ by making an error!

[Cyberyeti]

BillHiggin, on 2010-December-31, 03:30, said:

In fact, you only make 6♠ by making an error!

Not totally clear, playing the spade suit in isolation, I agree with you, but you also have to ruff a heart which is auto if trumps are 2-2 but there's a possible second round ruff or third round overruff if they're 3-1. Partner could have had the J♠ and 10♥ in addition to what they did have so slam could have been with the odds, but you need to find a very precise hand opposite to want to be in the slam, so I'd sign off in 4♠.

[mgoetze]

jillybean, on 2010-December-30, 21:26, said:

Interesting that Phil raised the 2 way response to nmf. I hadn't heard of this at all until a month ago when a partner told me "everyone plays 2 way responses".

Playing at the club against one of the top German players, I once had an uncontested auction like 1♦-1♠-1NT-2♣-2♠-3♠-4♣-...-6♠. Said top player inquired about this auction and was told that 2♣ was NMF and 4♣ was a cuebid showing a good hand for spades. He raised his eyebrows and asked, "don't you bid 3♠ with a maximum?"

[Fluffy]

if 2♠ can hold a maximum I'd bid 4♣ splinter

[l milne]

Fluffy, on 2011-January-01, 15:28, said:

if 2♠ can hold a maximum I'd bid 4♣ splinter

Why isn't 4♣ natural? 2♠ doesn't guarantee a fit, responder might have been looking for a heart fit with 4414 or something.

[Phil]

l milne, on 2011-January-01, 22:23, said:

Why isn't 4♣ natural? 2♠ doesn't guarantee a fit, responder might have been looking for a heart fit with 4414 or something.

4♣ is a splinter because 3♣ is 100% GF.

[FrancesHinden]

If I was confident that partner would understand 4C as a splinter, and that 2S might be a maximum, that's what I would do.

[jillybean]

I like 4♣ very much.

[JLOGIC]

I do not like splintering at all. We are going to get to a lot of poor slams that way, our hand is just not good enough. Should partner with QJx Axx Kx Axxxx really not just force to slam over that? How about Qxx Qxx AQx Axxx? Even hands with doubleton hearts do not just make slam good.

If you want to try for slam, I think 3H is the bid. Partner's heart holding is the key to our slam prospects. But personally I would just bid 4S.

BTW the way I played NMF was that you jump with a maximum, and make a minimum bid with a minimum, but all of my comments apply even assuming partner would have bid 2S with a maximum.

[ahydra]

I'm surprised there are no votes for 2H after 1NT. On the actual hand this gets us a 2S response from East, and then 4S is clear (hand is too weak for slam opposite 12-14 bal).

ahydra

[655321]

ahydra, on 2011-January-05, 18:31, said:

I'm surprised there are no votes for 2H after 1NT. On the actual hand this gets us a 2S response from East, and then 4S is clear (hand is too weak for slam opposite 12-14 bal).

2♥ is not forcing.