[Fluffy]

I am moving to a weak no trump opening

I always played 15-17 or even 16-18 in my first years and wanna know about the differences in competitive bidding.

We already know of a escaping structure when RHO doubles, not interested in this matter.


What I am interested in, is if there are other important differences regarding competitive sructure (lebenshol, take out doubles, power doubles, texas, etc) When RHO overcalls.

[FrancesHinden]

It is not so much the differences in structure after a 1NT opening (anything different there is marginal, apart from the obvious difference in responder's strength to do things).

It is more that competitive auctions after opening a suit become very different. For example, support doubles are much less useful, because after, say, 1D P 1H (2C) it's more useful to be able to show a strong NT with a double.

Also non-competitive auctions after a suit opening are different. Two obvious examples (but there is much more to think about): after e.g. 1D - 1H - 2H opener has either an unbalanced hand or a strong NT, so responder needs less to make a game try than in a strong NT context, where opener usually has a weak NT. After an inverted raise, if opener is balanced you have the values for game, so no reason to have a way to stop in 2NT.

[barmar]

Just read an article in this month's Bridge World where they calculated statistics of the value of doubling weak NT for penalty.

[pooltuna]

Consider the following non-competitive auction where the opener has a balanced hand;
1♦ - 1NT
2NT

or

1♦ - 1NT
3NT

clearly (at least IMO) this auction is significantly impacted by the change from 1NT=15-17 to something like 12-14

[Phil]

Agree with the non-support x idea, although we played

1x - pass - 1y - 1z
dbl

as support, but also a 15-17 hand.

[barmar]

Can't you still have a 3145 hand and want to make a support double? Is it just that the relative frequency of this is lower, and it's more useful to show the strong NT? If you're still on the 1 level, can't you do this by bidding 1NT? So the strong NT double is only really needed after 1x-1y-(2z)?

[Fluffy]

Sorry I should have said so, we open strong club, so strong NT is not an issue after opening 1♦.

Most of my bids after openeing strong NT in competition are eiher weak or gam forcing, with very little posibilities for invitational hands. Is it correct to play the same for a weak one?

[JLOGIC]

Yes just play your strong NT system (transfer lebsensohl and negative Xs for me but it doesn't really matter).

[gnasher]

Here's one small difference: in a sequence like 1NT (2♠) you will probably need ways to check for a stopper in the opponent's suit, whereas playing a strong notrump you might not bother.

[whereagles]

I have written lots of theory on the weak NT, Gonzalo. Send me a PM if you want my notes. It's in portuguese, but I think you can handle it

[rduran1216]

I've had a big debate about what to do in the 1NT 2S or 1NT 2H interference auctions.

On one hand, at the club level, players make such bad calls over 1NT I want to dbl for penalty (especially true over weak NT)

But in a better game, I think doubles should be negative and design ur system around more reliable opponents behaviors.

[zasanya]

My experience is : 1NT-2M-dbl is best used as negative showing invitational values and support for other major.Otherwise it is difficult to show this type of hand.

[OleBerg]

Be sure to discuss openers second bid in competitive auctions;

1♦- (1♠) - X - (Pass)
???

1♣ - (1♠) - 2♥ - (pass)
???

Can a NT bid be with an unbalanced hand, with good stoppers in their suit? And if it can, how much does it show? And is it the same for a 1NT and a 2NT rebid?

(In the second sequence, using 2♠ as a kind of Lebensohl is worth discussing.)


DEMARKATION LINE. (The below is merely suggestions.)


Do you plan to open 1NT with balanced hands and 5-card major?

If not, then notice, that your NT range need not influence how you play after 1M - 2X:

1♥ - 2♦
2NT need not be 15-17. If you like your old structure, you can keep it.


Also;

1♦ - 2♣
2NT???
3NT???

Here it would be natural to have 2NT show 15-17.

It is however, also an option to let it be a semi-artificial GF (Of course denying 4-card majors in an unbalanced hands, heavy support or a very unbalanced hand). This will remove the need for "emergency-reverses", making openers 2♥/2♠ bids guaranteing a four-card-suit. In this context 3NT could show a hand that just qualifies for game, but nothing more, and is in no way entuthiastic about partners suit. (Of course it could also be retained as the 18-19 NT.)

These principles could also be applied after opening 1♥/1♠ and recieving a 2 over 1 reply.

(All in this post should apply whether you play 2/1 or not.)


Combining all this, in the second sequence from the start, I play this (where 2♥ is only 10+):

1♣ - (1♠) - 2♥ - (Pass)

2♠ = Only non-gameforcing bid.
2NT = No other good bid.
3♣ = Gameforce, long clubs.
3♦ = Gameforce, natural.
3♥ = Gameforce, support.
3♠ = Splinter
3NT = Just enough for 3NT, stopper(s) in spades, normally at most doubleton hearts (and a hand with doubleton hearts can still bid 2NT, if it doesn't "scream 3NT"). Does not promise a balanced hand.

[EddieDane]

Don't play:

1x - (Pass) - 1y - (2z)
Double = Any 15-17,

if you're in a tournament with screens.

[ArcLight]

>>Just read an article in this month's Bridge World where they calculated statistics of the value of doubling weak NT for penalty.



And what did it say?

[klozetia]

JLOGIC, on 2010-December-27, 15:41, said:

Yes just play your strong NT system (transfer lebsensohl and negative Xs for me but it doesn't really matter).

i playing weak nt almost all my life but to use weak we can't forgot about few things and this few important arguments makes i never agree with posty problem. i use simple and for all knows convension of transfer for exemple.what is definition transfers stayman ... this is so obvioulsy i try prouf this shortly, in my knowledge tranfers(call texas too) was created to void play from weak hand when your strong hand is on table and switch suits to solution this problem is mean we use this to hide strong hand and often to change side of lead (in ask about stop by suit ops, often use too). so now i asking what general reason in weak nt is bid transfers when in most casess partner has STRONGER hand ??!!! i talking about board with hands for games play. is not even strange for me looks like it's "sepuku". 2nd argument is any player here who asked for what reason was created weak nt? and when is need to use or when we never should try ?
i have not to many time but open 1nt giving important informatin like (limited hand with mostly balanced hand, hands like 5332 even 6322 is use in stron version in weak nt we can use 5332 with 5 minor as balanced but is hard accept and bad effetive if we use with regular ) so in my opinion this is start of block possibly nice part of game or even games, we open on 1st level you start from 2 and you have no inormations about countd, one thing yet from losts in weak theme someone remind about safe ascpae after dbl. looks like my old version but not complete is need alternative to makes untrustworthy in thiers head, this add is a "trap" for ops after dbl still with ready escapae with weak option i will not write all here but belive me i playing this from a child and escpae evolved itself in time. i must finish for details pls ask ( not ask specific bid cut from middle any convention or auction and keep discussion for problem who never should born cus all this happeninis with any reason on begin auction or forced by vulns.
greeatings klaudiusz
sry for my english is nightamre

[hrothgar]

klozetia, on 2010-December-29, 11:08, said:

in my knowledge tranfers(call texas too) was created to void play from weak hand when your strong hand is on table and switch suits to solution this problem is mean we use this to hide strong hand and often to change side of lead

Welcome to the forums.
(Don't worry too much about your English... I doubt many of us could post an intelligble sentence on a Polish forum)

With this said and done:

I've frequently heard similar claims about transfers. "The primary purpose of a transfer is to ensure that the strong hand declares the hand / the opening lead gets directed into the tenaces".

It's a cute story and easy for people to understand.
Maybe this was even true at some point in time.
However, I don't think these arguments are particular important today:

If I had to describe the primary benefits to playing transfers, I'd point to the following:

1. Transfers are effective. (They allow responder to show a wide variety of hand types. In particular, responder can drop dead in 2M or show a variety of other hand types)

2. Transfers let the unbalanced hand show while the balanced hand asks. (The balanced hand is frequently in the best position to appreciate how well the two hands fit together)

Neither of these bears any relation to the strength of the NT opener.

I think that there are vaid reasons why one wouldn't want to play transfers opposite a weak NT opener. Here, once again, I don't think that right siding the contract matters much compared to:

Natural, non-forcing auctions like

1N - (P) - 2S

place much more pressure on the opponents.

[JLOGIC]

klozetia, on 2010-December-29, 11:08, said:

i playing weak nt almost all my life but to use weak we can't forgot about few things and this few important arguments makes i never agree with posty problem. i use simple and for all knows convension of transfer for exemple.what is definition transfers stayman ... this is so obvioulsy i try prouf this shortly, in my knowledge tranfers(call texas too) was created to void play from weak hand when your strong hand is on table and switch suits to solution this problem is mean we use this to hide strong hand and often to change side of lead (in ask about stop by suit ops, often use too). so now i asking what general reason in weak nt is bid transfers when in most casess partner has STRONGER hand ??!!! i talking about board with hands for games play. is not even strange for me looks like it's "sepuku". 2nd argument is any player here who asked for what reason was created weak nt? and when is need to use or when we never should try ?
i have not to many time but open 1nt giving important informatin like (limited hand with mostly balanced hand, hands like 5332 even 6322 is use in stron version in weak nt we can use 5332 with 5 minor as balanced but is hard accept and bad effetive if we use with regular ) so in my opinion this is start of block possibly nice part of game or even games, we open on 1st level you start from 2 and you have no inormations about countd, one thing yet from losts in weak theme someone remind about safe ascpae after dbl. looks like my old version but not complete is need alternative to makes untrustworthy in thiers head, this add is a "trap" for ops after dbl still with ready escapae with weak option i will not write all here but belive me i playing this from a child and escpae evolved itself in time. i must finish for details pls ask ( not ask specific bid cut from middle any convention or auction and keep discussion for problem who never should born cus all this happeninis with any reason on begin auction or forced by vulns.
greeatings klaudiusz
sry for my english is nightamre

Having the hand that overcalled something be on lead is way more important when both sides have ~equal HCP than having the slightly stronger hand play. You want someone leading away from their KJs or AQs, not their partner to be able to lead to it. Having the stronger hand declaring is only the relevant factor when the opponents strength is unknown, or I guess when one hand is very weak and one hand is very strong.

That said, hrothgar is of course spot on with his post, the point of transfer leb is of course to gain space. How do you invite in hearts after 1N 2S ? if you play regular lebensohl? Not having that available is a huge loss imo. I have the ability to invite in all suits except clubs, and with forcing hands I get to show my suit and then bid again which is beneficial, as well as the ability to sign off anywhere. I'm sure there are other systems that are able to do this, but probably not as simple as transfer leb. I think it is a huge improvement over regular leb, no matter what range the 1N is.