[jh51]

One of the arguements for some conventions are the implications of its non-use. When I am playing a gambling 3NT and instead bid 3 of a minor, partner knows that I do not have a solid minor and will not be tempted to bid 3NT without stoppers and a top honor. So one needs to consider not only the frequency with which the gambling 3NT comes up, but also the frequency with which a minor suit preempt occurs that does not fit the requirements of the gambling 3NT.

[barmar]

But if a hand appropriate for gambling 3NT almost never comes up, partner can reasonably assume that you don't have one when you bid 3m, even if you don't play the convention. Once or twice a year this assumption will be wrong.

[gnasher]

I don't think the choice is between 3NT and three of your minor. If you have a solid seven-card minor and don't open it 3NT, you should open it at the one-level.

jh51's argument still applies to some extent, though - there's some value in excluding this hand type from 1m-1x;2m.

[Free]

Free, on 2010-December-23, 08:39, said:

Why would you open 3NT anyways?

Just for the record, I meant on THIS hand. Playing gambling 3NT in a pickup partnership is probably best, but that doesn't mean I'd open 3NT on the hand given above.

Gambling 3NT is a gamble, if partner holds 3 Aces it's no longer a gamble, I know that. But with this hand, lots of the time 5♦ will be a lot safer (no need to gamble), or any NT contract (rightsided or not) may provide an easy 12 tricks. However, responder will only count on 7 tricks, not 8, so how can he accurately judge what the hand is worth (with AK, A and A he won't bid slam)? I'm sure most don't have an asking bid to know how long the minor is, most can ask about a shortness. But then which one should we show...

[Gerben42]

In a pick-up partnership 3NT as both majors 6-5 or something like that is probably best

Personally I prefer 3NT as Namyats and 4m natural.

[blackshoe]

That's not Namyats. The plethora of conventions in use today is bad enough; let's not confuse the issue by misusing their names.

I believe what you're suggesting is called (in this country, at least) Kantar 3NT. I agree that it's better than Namyats. Unfortunately, if I'm not mistaken, in North America it's a Mid-Chart convention.

[MARNICk]

I've recently changed to 2s as either minor weaker than normal 3cd as I think 2!s 5+!s -4/5+ m or 5+!s -5+any isn't very effective. Reading this thread I've came up with such an idea :
3nt - normal 4th level pree on minor . (Now we are able to play this 3nt which cld've been missed + this is nearly as preemptive as 4m) Can have side values or less than AQ AK - after x we just bid our suit without those top honours
2s - either m weaker than 3m openning . 6 crd m in some positions etc... or std gambling 3nt.
Now 2nt GF or just good siding opposite gambling
2s-2nt-3c/d nat 3h/s mb some 2 suiter both m 3nt is "gambling"

[glen]

Gambling 3NT is still very popular, but there are a set that require no outside stopper and another group that require one outside stopper.

Top level experts are starting to prefer better uses of the 3NT opening, such as world champ Fred who plays "3NT Opening bid in 1st/2nd is a preempt with at least 6-5 in the majors."

Some have tried 3NT with a solid/semi-solid major, the idea being 3NT would not be the final landing place.

My fav is a version of 3NT "to play", which produced a very long BBO thread some years ago - HNY all!

[JLOGIC]

I think people gamble with it way too much, but if I have 8 solid and no other stopper I like to be able to open it. Sure it's not very frequent, but why should a 3N opener be very frequent? It is simple enough so I'm fine with it as long as it doesn't become some Qxx xx AKQxxxx x red/white or whatever. I do like a couple of other things better if my partner will play them, but they are not frequent either..

[jillybean]

JLOGIC, on 2011-January-03, 02:04, said:

I think people gamble with it way too much, but if I have 8 solid and no other stopper I like to be able to open it. Sure it's not very frequent, but why should a 3N opener be very frequent? It is simple enough so I'm fine with it as long as it doesn't become some Qxx xx AKQxxxx x red/white or whatever. I do like a couple of other things better if my partner will play them, but they are not frequent either..

What other uses do you have for 3N?

[Gerben42]

Quote

My fav is a version of 3NT "to play", which produced a very long BBO thread some years ago - HNY all!

With an unpassed partner I think this is not a very constructive way to bid a good hand that might produce a slam in a minor.

Quote

I've recently changed to 2s as either minor weaker than normal 3cd as I think 2!s 5+!s -4/5+ m or 5+!s -5+any isn't very effective. Reading this thread I've came up with such an idea :

I have a strong conviction that a 2+♠ opening should show ♠ in some variation. The pre-emptive effect of the master suit should not be discarded lightly.

Quote

Some have tried 3NT with a solid/semi-solid major, the idea being 3NT would not be the final landing place.

This doesn't come up much either, but as Justin said, should it? It's just nice that if you have what would be a 5M opening pre-empt, that you have some way to show it before committing to the 5-level when 4M is your optimal contract. By the way if you play this, I like a 5M opening to show two tricks more than a 4M opening bid.

The one try at a 5M opening bid that I saw does not qualify:

---

This hand is too strong for a preempt, even though it might qualify for a vuln. 5M opening bid with 3 losers.

Fred may have a fond memory of this one

[mgoetze]

MARNICk, on 2011-January-01, 09:46, said:

I've recently changed to 2s as either minor weaker than normal 3cd as I think 2!s 5+!s -4/5+ m or 5+!s -5+any isn't very effective. Reading this thread I've came up with such an idea :
3nt - normal 4th level pree on minor . (Now we are able to play this 3nt which cld've been missed + this is nearly as preemptive as 4m) Can have side values or less than AQ AK - after x we just bid our suit without those top honours
2s - either m weaker than 3m openning . 6 crd m in some positions etc... or std gambling 3nt.
Now 2nt GF or just good siding opposite gambling
2s-2nt-3c/d nat 3h/s mb some 2 suiter both m 3nt is "gambling"

By the way, I would like to suggest a really novel use for your 2♠ opening. 4-10 points with 6 (or 5 very good) spades, no side suit necessary. Try it, it's very effective.

[MARNICk]

Thx for the fresh view. Playing 2d- multi and 2h-flannery ,so changing 2d to wilkosz/nat and weak 2♠ I wouldn't be able to show weak h. Btw I played some brds using 2sp - wk minor/gambling and the score is positive so far. (flannery is unremovable http://bridgewinners...nery-im-serious . Also played it before reading that article ;]

[gwnn]

mgoetze, on 2011-January-03, 06:57, said:

By the way, I would like to suggest a really novel use for your 2♠ opening. 4-10 points with 6 (or 5 very good) spades, no side suit necessary. Try it, it's very effective.

hunting + votes again?

[mgoetze]

gwnn, on 2011-January-04, 04:49, said:

hunting + votes again?

Yeah that han guy is getting too close for comfort. Wish I had come up with his post on LTC.

[dboxley]

1eyedjack, on 2010-December-23, 13:30, said:

I don't have a strong opinion, but I will say that when I have played it (and against it) frequently responder has just two of the side suits stopped and 9 tricks roll in after an unfortunate guess on lead, and there is no play for 5m

Standard lead vs g3nt passed out is "the highest card in your hand"

[mgoetze]

dboxley, on 2015-November-06, 07:11, said:

Standard lead vs g3nt passed out is "the highest card in your hand"

And why do you feel the need to mention this 5 years later?

[Zelandakh]

mgoetze, on 2015-November-06, 07:25, said:

And why do you feel the need to mention this 5 years later?

Obviously an attempt to win the Necro of the Year award for the end of year Posties.

[Vampyr]

Zelandakh, on 2015-November-06, 07:41, said:

Obviously an attempt to win the Necro of the Year award for the end of year Posties.

There seems to be a lot of it going around.

I play 3NT as South African Texas in a Major with a few partners, gambling with most others, and am fairly indifferent about which one. I am happy to defer to my partner on either of these or even Baby Blackwood or broken minor or whatever they want to play.

[Zelandakh]

Are you sure you mean SAT rather than Namyats here? 3NT showing a solid or semi-solid major is a convention that has certainly been gaining ground over the last years. Some others just use it as a good 4M opening without any strict qualifications. Personally, I like it as a good 4 level preempt in a minor, which takes the pressure off the 3m openings a little bit, but I am also fairly indifferent about it.