[Hanoi5]

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Let's not talk about the bidding. The ♦Q was led to the Ace, a heart to the A and another heart to the 9, Q and K. South returned another heart and West threw a diamond on it (you also did). The ♠A only gets small cards, how do you continue? Is there a 100% line?

[Phil]

I do not know what the rush is in looking in cashing spades. I would be inclined to play North for the spade length and if South has it and the ♣QJ, I have a black suit squeeze.

[MrAce]

Hanoi5, on 2010-December-09, 20:06, said:

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Let's not talk about the bidding. The ♦Q was led to the Ace, a heart to the A and another heart to the 9, Q and K. South returned another heart and West threw a diamond on it (you also did). The ♠A only gets small cards, how do you continue? Is there a 100% line?

What do u mean by west discarded a ♦ and i also did ? I think you meant North discarded a ♦ on 3rd ♥ ? If so;

If N has QJT9 ♦ or 6 cards any ♦ then we have a % 100 making line..

♠A and ♠ to K, if 3-2 i claim, 4-1 and south has 1 i still claim, if 4-1 and N has 1♠ we also saw him with 2♥ (assuming he discarded a ♦ on 3rd round ♥) North is now marked with 10 cards minors then. Cash ♦K discard a ♠ from dummy and go to ♠ Q, cash 2 more ♥ forcing South to hold 3 cards, he has to hold a ♠ and 2 other any we hold AT ♣ and ♦8 and now N is squeezed between ♦ and ♣

This line won't work if south has more than 2♦ including 9 or any higher ♦, otherwise it is a % 100 make. At the table we will probably make even when he has 9xx ♦. But the lead and first discard being ♦ are very strong signs of long ♦ in North especially if shows up with 2♥ and stiff ♠.

[gnasher]

MrAce, on 2010-December-10, 03:20, said:

If N has QJT9 ♦ or 6 cards any ♦ then we have a % 100 making line..

♠A and ♠ to K, if 3-2 i claim, 4-1 and south has 1 i still claim, if 4-1 and N has 1♠ we also saw him with 2♥ (assuming he discarded a ♦ on 3rd round ♥) North is now marked with 10 cards minors then. Cash ♦K discard a ♠ from dummy and go to ♠ Q, cash 2 more ♥ forcing South to hold 3 cards, he has to hold a ♠ and 2 other any we hold AT ♣ and ♦8 and now N is squeezed between ♦ and ♣

This line won't work if south has more than 2♦ including 9 or any higher ♦, otherwise it is a % 100 make. At the table we will probably make even when he has 9xx ♦. But the lead and first discard being ♦ are very strong signs of long ♦ in North especially if shows up with 2♥ and stiff ♠.

I don't see why you think 1264 is more likely than 1255 (though maybe there's a restricted choice argument with respect to North's first discard). Anyway, we don't have to play spades yet.

In this sort of situation, the defenders usually give each other count. I'd like to know what South played on the first diamond, which diamond Norh discarded, and what their carding is. Then I'd like to know what North throws when I cash a fourth heart, throwing a club.

[Flameous]

I'll play for "pseudo" compound squeeze. (Always works if south holds H9 in clubs because I get a guard squeeze) Run the hearts throwing diamond and spades and then try to read something to the distribution. It should be rather easy to see if spades or clubs are abandoned so I likely assume that one holds spades, other diamonds and both hold clubs and play for the double squeeze. The only problem I'm having with this is that I think I can't always test three rounds of spades, so if I read something very wrong, I'm losing to the simplest way to make

[Hanoi5]

There lied my mistake: I thought there were squeeze possibilities and that I could squeeze North in diamonds and other but this is impossible since West discards before North.

This is one of those hands where you just have to count and by the end of the hand (last three tricks) you'll have enough information to take a winning line on how to play the key suit (spades), why would you want to set-up a diamond or a club when all you need is to know who holds (or who can hold) 4 spades?

When I got to this point I played another heart and threw a spade (North threw another diamond) and another spade to my K and another diamond from North. South had 4 spades to the J and my only hope was for him to have ♣QJ but no such luck. By the way, if I had played the ♦K earlier I would have discovered diamonds were 7-1 (wasn't there an inference from South non-diamond return?), but even if they had been 6-2 or 5-3 I could have made it by counting the hand.

[Phil]

Flameous, on 2010-December-10, 07:50, said:

I'll play for "pseudo" compound squeeze. (Always works if south holds H9 in clubs because I get a guard squeeze) Run the hearts throwing diamond and spades and then try to read something to the distribution. It should be rather easy to see if spades or clubs are abandoned so I likely assume that one holds spades, other diamonds and both hold clubs and play for the double squeeze. The only problem I'm having with this is that I think I can't always test three rounds of spades, so if I read something very wrong, I'm losing to the simplest way to make

[MrAce]

gnasher, on 2010-December-10, 05:51, said:

I don't see why you think 1264 is more likely than 1255 (though maybe there's a restricted choice argument with respect to North's first discard). Anyway, we don't have to play spades yet.

In this sort of situation, the defenders usually give each other count. I'd like to know what South played on the first diamond, which diamond Norh discarded, and what their carding is. Then I'd like to know what North throws when I cash a fourth heart, throwing a club.

Even with 5-5 minors with N, i can make as long as he has the spots, or South doesnt hold on to his 9xx ♦, but you are absolutely right, i think there is no way defenders can hide their hands if we just cash our winners and find out who has 4 card ♠ if any.

[Phil]

MrAce, on 2010-December-10, 15:24, said:

Even with 5-5 minors with N, i can make as long as he has the spots, or South doesnt hold on to his 9xx ♦, but you are absolutely right, i think there is no way defenders can hide their hands if we just cash our winners and find out who has 4 card ♠ if any.

Since the 3 is needed as a menace in the endgame, North would have to have six clubs to pull this off.

[MrAce]

Phil, on 2010-December-10, 16:35, said:

Since the 3 is needed as a menace in the endgame, North would have to have six clubs to pull this off.

Did u mean 6♣ or ♦, i didn't understand why N has to have 6 ♣ ?

[MrAce]

Hanoi5, on 2010-December-10, 07:50, said:

There lied my mistake: I thought there were squeeze possibilities and that I could squeeze North in diamonds and other but this is impossible since West discards before North.

This is one of those hands where you just have to count and by the end of the hand (last three tricks) you'll have enough information to take a winning line on how to play the key suit (spades), why would you want to set-up a diamond or a club when all you need is to know who holds (or who can hold) 4 spades?

You can squeeze North as i explained, your discard infront of him doesn't really rescue him if he has 6♦ or 5♦ with all ♦ spots.

EDIT : i posted a hand which i thought cashing all the winners won't help to figure ♠, but it was wrong , so i deleted it.

[Phil]

MrAce, on 2010-December-10, 16:50, said:

Did u mean 6♣ or ♦, i didn't understand why N has to have 6 ♣ ?

Tell me how you are getting to the ending, and I will tell you why North needs all of the clubs.

[MrAce]

Phil, on 2010-December-10, 19:01, said:

Tell me how you are getting to the ending, and I will tell you why North needs all of the clubs.

I cashed ♠A and ♠ K, and in order to be a problem N needs to be stiff. And i will make when he has only 4 ♣ or 5 ♣ as long as he has 6♦ or 5♦ with spots. (i don't even know where u come up with north has to have 6 cards ♣)

Here is how i roll, pretty same as i wrote b4, after ♠ K i cash ♦K discardin a ♠ from dummy, go to ♠ Q, and cash remaining 2♥, which brings us to last 3 cards, South has to hold b4 me, and he HAS TO hold 1♠ or i claim. He holds 1♠ and 2 any (except 9x ♦ as i noted b4) so whichever ♣ south started with he cant hold more than 2 of them. In hand i hold AT♣ and ♦8 discarding my remaining ♠ when south holds on to it. And dummy has K32 ♣. North is now squeezed also, he has to hold 1♦ therefore he can not guard ♣. My ♣ are good regardless of their spots.