[Cyberyeti]

Playing a modified form of acol with 4 card majors, we bid:

E dealer:

1♥-2♦
2♠-2N
3♦-4♣
4♥-5♣(RKCB, 2 with)
5♠-6♣ (K♠?, no but I do have the K♣)
?

Now E is on a guess, partner has either what he actually has (give or take the J♦) or possibly xxx, xx, AQxxx, AKx. With what he actually has, the grand is good, with the other hand, it's much less good but not misere, so I'd probably bid it. Partner might also have the J♥ which would considerably improve things.

W dealer

1♦-1♥
2♣-2♠
3♠-4♦(in a situation where 3♠ cannot be natural, it shows extras with no stop)
5♣-5♥
6♣-?

Again a guess, partner has shown an approximate 15 count with the ♣AK and no more than the major suit jacks, so figures to have the ♦A and probably the Q as well. He could have something unfortunate like Jx,Jx, Axxxx, AKQx where the grand is on a finesse and has to be played in no trumps.

At MP I might well bid 6N, at IMPS not sure what I'd do.

[Valardent]

East dealer :

1♥- 2♣nat/GF relay
2♠- 2NT 4+OM/relay
3♠- 4♣4531 10+QP/ask
4♠- 4NT 12 QP/DCB
5♣ - 5♦ 0, Q or AKQ in ♥/r
5NT- 6♣ A/K♠,A/K♦, no♥J/r
6♥- 6NT/7♦ AK or AQ or KQ♠, no 2ndtop♦

West dealer :

1♦- 1NT nat4+♦ or 18-20 bal/ GF relay
3♣- 3♦ xx54 8-11 QP/r
3♥- 3♠ 2254/ask
4♣- 4♦ 9QP/scan
4♥- 4♠ 0/2 Aces/r
5♦- 5♥ ♣K/r
5♠- 5NT ♦Q/r
6♦- 6♥ ♦J, no♣J/r
6♠- 6NT/7♦ no♥J

Both 7♦ would be misorientated...

This post has been edited by Valardent: 2010-November-17, 20:09

[Wackojack]

I notice that some 7♦ ers have wrong sided the contract for a spade lead. If you eschew the finesse, what are your chances? If you try and ruff 2 clubs you cant get back to your hand unless Hearts split 3-3. If you draw all trumps then you need hearts 3-3 or J to come down. If you ruff 1♣ you also have squeeze possibilities. This now looks like perhaps about 60% odds on. (Any mathmaticians?) Other lines look worse. 7♦by east looks a whole lot better. At MP I would want to be in 6NT by east.

[Free]

Wackojack, on 2010-November-18, 06:45, said:

I notice that some 7♦ ers have wrong sided the contract for a spade lead. If you eschew the finesse, what are your chances? If you try and ruff 2 clubs you cant get back to your hand unless Hearts split 3-3. If you draw all trumps then you need hearts 3-3 or J to come down. If you ruff 1♣ you also have squeeze possibilities. This now looks like perhaps about 60% odds on. (Any mathmaticians?) Other lines look worse. 7♦by east looks a whole lot better. At MP I would want to be in 6NT by east.

And obviously there's the chance that opps don't even lead a ♠. Could be a trump which isn't nice...

[Fluffy]

west deals?? this is very easy

1NT-2♦ 13-15 -forcing stayman
3♠-4♣ 2254-keycard ask in longest suit
4NT-5♣ 2 and the queen- specific kings
5NT-7♦ ♣K- 13 tricks in the form of 1♠, 4♥ (Ruffing one), 5♦, 3♣ (1 ruff)


If east deals it is not very problematic either, takes a bit more though

-----1♣ 16+
2♥-2♠ 54+ minors 8+ HCP-relay
3♦-3♥ 5♦4♣ 12+ HCP-relay
3♠-4♣ 2254-keycard ask in longest suit (same as above)

[awm]

It may be worth a comment that an awful lot of these auctions would be the same if west held ♦AQxxx. In this case a grand slam is quite poor. You will need diamonds 3-2, and the grand is not cold even then (note for example the comments about a spade lead).

[dellache]

West dealer :
1♦ 1♥ (4+♦, unbal (10)11-21 / Nat 4+♥, or ® 11+)
2♣ 2♠ (11-15, 4+♣, includes xx45 / GF®)
3♣ 3♦ (xx54 / ®)
3♥ 4♣ (2254 / ® setting diamonds)
5♣ ... (max hand, 2 Keys, ♦Q, ♣K / ...)

West has clearly xx xx AQxxx AKxx, and may have any Jack (not Q♣, he would upgrade (bid 1♠ ART over 1♥) and not bid 2♣).
Now 7♦ is wrong sided, and we would bid it when we need some action (KO match, trailing) : it is OK on a non ♠ lead (needs 3-2 Diamonds but not much more !) and bad otherwise. At MP we can right-side the contract in 6NT and we bid that happily. AT Imps, we would usually end the bidding at 6♦.

East dealer : We just bid it yesterday with my pard (he was relaying, I knew the hand)
1♥ 2♣ (5+♥, 10-21(22) / GFR)
2♥ 2♠ (4+♠ / ®)
2NT 3♣ ((15) 16-21 / ®)
3♦ 3♥ (45xx 15-19 / ®)
4♣ 4♦ (4531 15-18 / ® set ♥ !)
4♠ 4NT (3 Keys, 17-18 / ®)
5♥ 7♦ (♥Q ♦K / Right sided, luckily)

This is a rare bad case for our relays, since only the 4531 15+ finishes description above 3NT. We don't use an end signal, and the possibilities over 4♣ are to set Hearts (4♦), Spades (4NT), or Diamonds (5♣). The strategy is often to set a fake economic trumps suit (and change it afterwards) in those cases, after checking that we can control the scan (which is 98% the case).

Here 7♦ by the describing hand is a good proposal as (1) East will usually have HJ or SQ to qualify for the 17-18 range (2) ♠lead is UNLIKELY, and (3) a small slam is at least bid at the other tables.

[WGF_Flame]

looks like 7D will be an average as everyone here easily bid it

now seriously, we would have bid something like this:
1d-1h
2c-3d GF
4c-4nt
5s-5nt
6c-....
I don't think i would have bid 7D here,at mp I'd probably bid 6NT.

[Fluffy]

awm, on 2010-November-20, 18:40, said:

It may be worth a comment that an awful lot of these auctions would be the same if west held ♦AQxxx. In this case a grand slam is quite poor. You will need diamonds 3-2, and the grand is not cold even then (note for example the comments about a spade lead).

You are right, I noticed the spade lead on my first bidding were west is dealer, but I had rightsided it by mere luck so it was ok, on the second one I didn't bother to look who was playing, but it is the wrong player now. Still there is room for extras, so ♥J could just be there, and if not, opponents will know declarer's shape, but nothing about dummy.

I don't think worrying about ♦J is worth it, partner might have t, or it will normallyt fall. I have a tool for asking it but consumes a lot of spade, and then asking for ♣K might be too high.