[jetkro]

Hi,

I apologize in advance if this topic has been discussed in the past.

I open 1D with xx, AQx, KJxxx, QJx.

Responder bids 1H.

I like to be able to raise to 2H on my hand, even though I am balanced.

Could anyone suggest a simple scheme for the partnership to use when they want to try for game or force to game?
Also in which strain will they play if opener could hold three hearts?

Thanks,
jetkro.

[Chamaco]

1m:1H:2H: ?

The simpler scheme is the following:

2NT = invitational with 4 cards in M; pard will place the contract in NT or H according to his had

3NT= pass or correct to 4H

2S/3om (other minor) = help suit game try with 5 trumps, looking for help in the suit bid.
May prelude to a slam try

3m = artificial looking for possible slam, asks opener to bid 3NT with 3 card support, or to cuebid otherwise.

3H = help suit game try with 5 trumps, looking for help in opener's minor suit

[Free]

Hi jetkro, welcome to the forum

You can use the exact same scheme to any 1X-1M;2M bidding. Responder bids 2NT (inv) or 3NT (GF) with exact 4 card M, or bids anything else as gametry or gameforce with 5+ card, as you would normally use it. This makes it very easy and safe for opener to support on a 3 card, but responder has to keep in mind that it could be only 3 cards

Hmmm, this seems to be very similar to Chamaco's sollution, but I think it's the standard way

[pclayton]

jetkro, on Aug 23 2004, 03:30 AM, said:

Hi,

I apologize in advance if this topic has been discussed in the past.

I open 1D with xx, AQx, KJxxx, QJx.

Responder bids 1H.

I like to be able to raise to 2H on my hand, even though I am balanced.

Could anyone suggest a simple scheme for the partnership to use when they want to try for game or force to game?
Also in which strain will they play if opener could hold three hearts?

Thanks,
jetkro.

Here's a cool little toy we play out here:

Assume it starts 1♦-1♥-2♥

2N is an all purpose ask:

Then:

3♣ = Minimum raise with 3 trump. Note: A return to 3♦ is non-forcing.
3♦ = Max raise with 3 trump
3♥ = Min raise with 4 trump
3♠ = max balanced raise with 4 trump
3N = unused
4♣ = max raise with 4 trump and stiff
4♦ = 2452 picture jump; doubletons in black suits, all points concentrated in red suits
4♥ = max raise with 4 trump and stiff spade

I've seen some players on BBO use 2♠ as the ask when hearts is trump. There may be some efficiencies to this, I dont know.

[jtfanclub]

After mucho discussion, my mentor and I agreed that two CLUBS should show this hand- 12-15 hcp, exactly 3 hearts, 0-3 spades. 4-6 diamonds. This is just an obvious variant of new minor forcing. What if you have clubs & diamonds and 0-2 hearts? You rebid 1NT.

I think it's superior to have two raises from 1H to 2H instead of 1- it helps your partner make the decision. It doesn't matter if the 2C bid is the one that shows the fourth heart, or 2H.

Quote

Here's a cool little toy we play out here:

Assume it starts 1♦-1♥-2♥

2N is an all purpose ask:

Then:

3♣ = Minimum raise with 3 trump. Note: A return to 3♦ is non-forcing.
3♦ = Max raise with 3 trump
3♥ = Min raise with 4 trump
3♠ = max balanced raise with 4 trump
3N = unused
4♣ = max raise with 4 trump and stiff
4♦ = 2452 picture jump; doubletons in black suits, all points concentrated in red suits
4♥ = max raise with 4 trump and stiff spade

Well, that certainly fits in with my earlier poll...what did you answer to it? Or to rephrase, do you think every hand that asks over 2H want to be in game after you bid at the 4 level, or are they going to want to stop at the 3 level if your shapes don't match?

Quote

Also in which strain will they play if opener could hold three hearts?

You don't have the slightest clue. It could be hearts, it could be NT. Don't discount the possiblity that your best contract could be diamonds- your partner may have four of them. The other problem in the hand is adjusted points: if your partner has, say, a singleton small club the QJ may as well be the 43. On the other hand, if he has a singleton spade, you and your partner just hit the jackpot.

Read the comments Free and others made in my poll question, and then ask if you want to leave 2H telling so little to your partner.

[inquiry]

I have always freely raised to 2♥ on three card support on auctions like this. If I am 4333 I tend to bid 1NT, if I am 4432 or 5332 I tend to raise. Unlike other posters, with most partners I don't have a lot of special agreements here (with Misho, of course, I do). Usually 2NT is natural, and not forcing and a new suit is exploratory and one round force.

A general rule I use, when deciding to raise or bid 1NT is that I tend to raise directly with a weaker hands and bid 1NT with stronger hands, when I have an option of the two bids. You might try this, or you might reverse the process, bidding 1NT with the weaker hands and raising with the stronger. This way, if partner uses some checkback and I show three card support, he knows more about your range when you show your support at the two level. I find this helpful in making close bidding decisions not only at two level, but when opponents try to then push us around later.

To JTFANCLUB, Misho and I, in fact, play new minor by opener as a one round force but this does not include hidding 3 card support for responder very often (it can have, but only with very good hands). We use this more because we have further divided our direct raises... let's take examine an auction...

1♦ = 1♥
?

Here we bid
2♥ = 3 or 4 cards support about 14 pts maximum.
3♣ = 6 card suit and three card support. nice hand but not forcing
3♥ = 15-16 points, four card support (counting distribution, NF)
2NT = 17+ points (counting distribution), 4 card support, can be way unbalanced
4♣ = running suit, 4 card support
4♦ = splitner, enough for game
3♠ = splinter, enough for game
4♥ = wild distribution, long clubs, long hearts, not so many points, not running C
2♣ = one round force, often balanced 17=19 where will may rebid 2NT, but can include 3 card support

[Dwayne]

jtfanclub, on Aug 23 2004, 01:41 PM, said:

After mucho discussion, my mentor and I agreed that two CLUBS should show this hand- 12-15 hcp, exactly 3 hearts, 0-3 spades. 4-6 diamonds.

That sounds fantastic. Oh hang on, what if I have clubs?

Think I'll file this treatment next to Drury in my recycling bin.

Back to the drawing board?

Dwayne-da-rat.

[inquiry]

Dwayne, on Aug 23 2004, 05:30 PM, said:

jtfanclub, on Aug 23 2004, 01:41 PM, said:

After mucho discussion, my mentor and I agreed that two CLUBS should show this hand- 12-15 hcp, exactly 3 hearts, 0-3 spades. 4-6 diamonds.

That sounds fantastic. Oh hang on, what if I have clubs?

Think I'll file this treatment next to Drury in my recycling bin.

Back to the drawing board?

Dwayne-da-rat.

A bit harsh, there is a famous Kaplan quote that goes something like.. in modern bridge no one can bid clubs naturally, and now diamonds are getting there too...

That is badly paraphased, surely someone will look it up.

I am not overly fond of bidding 1NT with a void, as jtfanclub is suggesting, not even thrilled about it with a singleton (although I will do that).

But look at what jtfanclub's method gives up, the ability to play exactly 2♣. At imps, this is surely not too large a sacrafice. I give this up also. I suspect a case can be made at MP how 2♣ is the perfect spot and you can't get there any other way than bidding 2♣ all pass. But by giving up a natural 2♣ here you can improve your bidding bidding on bigger hands with a little forsight, and you can use a 3♣ rebid by the 2♣ bidder to show the weakish minor two suiter that could not stand to rebid 1NT.

I do think if you are going to give up on 2♣ you should get a little more mileage out of it than precisely 3♥. In fact, raising with precisely 3♥ has an interesting effect on the opponents. They will assume you have an 8 card fit, and overbid the law sometiems. If you tell them you have for sure 3♥, they will be more leary of entering the bidding. But I think the idea is to come up with schemes, give them a try, and find out what works for you. At least here, they "raise" with support, separating 3 card from four card support. I can imagine that information will be equally useful to your partner as it is to your oppponents, especially when you raise directly. So for them, this might solve a problem in their system and bidding style.

Now, as for drury, I play it even after a first seat opening bid, and I use 3♣ as a fit jump. So guess my entire sytem needs to be scrapped (well, after first seat, my 2♣ is either good raise to 2 or 3 ♠ generally with 3 card support, balanced hand 11+, or true 2over1 game force with 5+ clubs)... in third seat and 4th seat, back to normal drury.

Ben

[jtfanclub]

Dwayne, on Aug 23 2004, 04:30 PM, said:

jtfanclub, on Aug 23 2004, 01:41 PM, said:

After mucho discussion, my mentor and I agreed that two CLUBS should show this hand- 12-15 hcp, exactly 3 hearts, 0-3 spades. 4-6 diamonds.

That sounds fantastic. Oh hang on, what if I have clubs?

Think I'll file this treatment next to Drury in my recycling bin.

Back to the drawing board?

Dwayne-da-rat.

You're right. If there was only way that responder could go back to 2C after opener rebid 1NT. Or, for that matter, figure out that opener has a club partial, just because he doesn't have hearts, spades, or a long diamond suit.

Guess I'll have to rethink that one.

---

People often think because you can't have an open suit at 3NT, you can't have an open suit at 1NT. The reverse is actually true- you WANT an open suit at 1NT, because it means you have concentrated length and strength in the other suits. Take the example hand above...do you want to play in your 4-4 club suit, or play 1NT and watch them take their 5 spade tricks off the top? (actually probably 4 spade tricks...both opps had a chance to bid spades at the 1 level and declined, so they're likely to be 4-4). 1NT will usually be 120. 3C...well, with a good split, you might go 110. If it's a bad split, good luck. For this example, I made jacks X's as well, so add some if you want. It won't make any difference.

Let me further explain something, since I didn't earlier.
This goes 1D-1H-2C:

---

This goes 1D-1H-2H:

---

The question you should ask yourself is, if your partner has lots of points but only four hearts, do you want to be at 4 hearts? A singleton in the hand with the short trumps is very useful. A doubleton usually isn't. So suck in that gut and raise directly with three card support with a singleton, and be prepared to play in the Moysian. They aren't as bad as some claim.