[straube]

Without interference, we use for our strong club....
.....1D-GF
..........1H-relays
..........other-reverse relays
.....1H-all semipositives
.....1S-negative
.....other-various GF

After 1C X I'm thinking....

.....rdbl-negative
..........2C-virtual GF
.....P-various semipositives
..........1D-relays
...............1H-four hearts, could have four spades, follow standard symmetric
...............1S-minors
...............1N-6 clubs, single-suited
...............other-6 diamonds
.....1D-GF, unchanged
.....1H-semipositives with spades but not hearts
..........1S-relays
.....1S-semipositive balanced hands
..........1N-to play
..........2C-relays
.....other-GF, unchanged

Suggestions?

[Zelandakh]

I think I would be more inclined to organise my semi-positives around the majors. The trouble is that when you need 1NT over 1S as a sign-off there is no convenient way to split the hands, at least on a quick cursory look. However I would definitely prefer to put the semi-positive balanced hands within the initial pass since that allows you to conveniently reverse the relays.

One option would be to have 1S as 5+ hearts but it is necessary to drop one of the 5-5 types from this making it somewhat unsatisfactory. Another option is to play 1S as 4+ hearts and relay 1 step higher than symmetric. The loss of a step is not too bad in semi-positive auctions since you regain it later on at the strength asking stage, so overall I think this scheme looks better:-

XX = neg
P = semi-positive with no major, or balanced, or 3-suited with short major/hearts*
1D = GF
1H = semi-positive with 4+ spades, unbalanced
1S = semi-positive with 4+ hearts, 0-3 spades, unbalanced, not 3-suited
1N+ = GF

* your choice depending on how this fits with existing relay scheme

[straube]

 Zelandakh, on 2010-November-13, 17:01, said:

I think I would be more inclined to organise my semi-positives around the majors. The trouble is that when you need 1NT over 1S as a sign-off there is no convenient way to split the hands, at least on a quick cursory look. However I would definitely prefer to put the semi-positive balanced hands within the initial pass since that allows you to conveniently reverse the relays.

One option would be to have 1S as 5+ hearts but it is necessary to drop one of the 5-5 types from this making it somewhat unsatisfactory. Another option is to play 1S as 4+ hearts and relay 1 step higher than symmetric. The loss of a step is not too bad in semi-positive auctions since you regain it later on at the strength asking stage, so overall I think this scheme looks better:-

XX = neg
P = semi-positive with no major, or balanced, or 3-suited with short major/hearts*
1D = GF
1H = semi-positive with 4+ spades, unbalanced
1S = semi-positive with 4+ hearts, 0-3 spades, unbalanced, not 3-suited
1N+ = GF

* your choice depending on how this fits with existing relay scheme

I see tremendous upside in getting hearts into the picture. I guess relaying them at +1 isn't a big deal. Remembering the continuations over P might be troublesome but I expect RHO to bid something over that pass and now relays are broken anyway.

If not...

1C X P P

XX?

.....1D-bal?
.....1H-minors?
.....1S-clubs?
.....1N-3-suited, short major?
.....2C-diamonds, bal?

We are at -3 !!!

Seems like we could use this room for something else, but maybe not.

[straube]

I think 1C X XX must be the semipositive.

1D-relays
.....1H-bal
.....1S-C/D
.....1N-C
.....2C-3-suited, short M
.....etc-D

That's -2 and easier to remember

But 1C X P P

XX-shows a strong 2 opener
.....1D-third negative
.....etc.

[mycroft]

What does X show? If it shows the majors, that's going to be a different structure than if it shows clubs (or some one-suited hand, or reds-or-blacks, or clubs-or-takeout-of-clubs, or diamonds-or-takeout-of-diamonds, and possibly or diamonds-or-majors)

Or you can just ignore that, and treat it straight up and remember.

[straube]

 mycroft, on 2010-November-15, 16:17, said:

What does X show? If it shows the majors, that's going to be a different structure than if it shows clubs (or some one-suited hand, or reds-or-blacks, or clubs-or-takeout-of-clubs, or diamonds-or-takeout-of-diamonds, and possibly or diamonds-or-majors)

Or you can just ignore that, and treat it straight up and remember.

Good point, but you know half of the time the opponents aren't even on the same wavelength. I'd say most play it as takeout of clubs or majors (which is pretty similar) and a minority play it as clubs. I'd think it may be best to play dbl as a good hand.

I think I'm happy if opener can retain control of the bidding (i.e. at least one of us knows what's going on)

[mgoetze]

 straube, on 2010-November-15, 16:37, said:

Good point, but you know half of the time the opponents aren't even on the same wavelength.

I wonder why you bother so much about system if that's the quality of opposition you usually play against...