[trevahound]

Partner opens a str NT, 2nd hand passes, I bid stayman, and 4th hand overcalls 2M (let's say 2♠, natural).

Are opener's doubles business or t/o? If opener passes, what does that mean? Are responder's doubles then business or t/o?

If both opener's and responder's doubles are business, what is responder to do with say a 1/4/4/4 9 count after 2s by the overcaller gets passed around?

I get my -670's the old fashioned way -- I earn them. Bigger picture advice on these sequences would be greatly appreciated.

bbo: trevahound / brian zaugg

[wyman]

You'll probably get a number of responses, but for me, doubles by both hands are takeout.

[Hanoi5]

I play both doubles as penalty, but I know it's not a good agreement.

[ggwhiz]

I was taught that an immediate double behind the overcaller is business and by the pass out seat is take-out. Over Under doubles.

The takeout double can often be converted as my pard and I specifally agree that it shows enough strength to ALMOST always get a plus opposite a 4 triple 15 count.

Pard may have the penalty hand without enough to pull the trigger on their own opposite weaker stayman hands.

[nigel_k]

I prefer to just play all of these kind of doubles as takeout.

There are too many different sequences to have rules for all of them unless you have a much better memory than mine. Relying on both partners to decide at the table what is logical in any given auction doesn't work that well either. The case for double by the 1NT bidder being penalty in this precise auction is fairly strong but I still think you won't lose much by playing it as takeout and will save a lot of headaches.

[ArtK78]

I have followed this simple rule which takes care of most cases well enough.

Double behind the bidder is for penalties; double in front of the bidder is for takeout.

[Zelandakh]

Around here (weak NT land alert) the most common method is for double to show hearts, 2S to show spades (over 2H) and for pass to deny these possibilities. In effect take-out over 2S and penalty over 2H.

[nige1]

trevahound, on 2010-November-11, 12:11, said:

Partner opens a str NT, 2nd hand passes, I bid stayman, and 4th hand overcalls 2M (let's say 2♠, natural). Are opener's doubles business or t/o? If opener passes, what does that mean? Are responder's doubles then business or t/o? If both opener's and responder's doubles are business, what is responder to do with say a 1/4/4/4 9 count after 2s by the overcaller gets passed around?I get my -670's the old fashioned way -- I earn them. Bigger picture advice on these sequences would be greatly appreciated.

• IMO, Double = takeout by opener or responder; especially if Stayman could be garbage.
• If Stayman promises values, I still prefer takeout; but now there is more of a case for penalty.
• I don't think the meaning should vary, depending on whether you are over or under the overcall.
• Obviously any agreement is better than none.

[mikestar13]

A fair meta-agreement for double:

Doubles are penalty if:

• Our opening is NT at 2-level or above (natural).
  
• We opened a preempt.
  
• We have found a fit.
  
• The auction is at game or higher, starting at opener's rebid. (These tend to be general strength rather than a trump stack.)

All other doubles are takeout. Exceptions may be defined, for example 1M-(P)-2M-(3any)-X may be defined as a game try.

[the hog]

I would suggest that whether the double is penalty or takeout should depend whether you paly garbage stayman or not. If yes, then t/o, if no, the penalties.

[trevahound]

Thanks all -- appreciated.

I'm going to try t/o from both sides of the table, which should fit well with neg doubles at all levels here too.