[mgoetze]

I've been wondering how many different agreements exist about which minor to open in a "natural 5-card majors" context. I also wonder which percentage of bridge players know what their regular partner is playing here. Here's an attempt at a list:

- Better minor
- 1♣ with 3-3 and better minor with 4-4 (I believe this is BWS)
- "Normally" 1♦ with 4-4 and 1♣ with 3-3 (SAYC)
- Always 1♦ with 4-4 and 1♣ with 3-3 (Forum D, and I believe also SEF)
- 1♦ promises 4, 1♣ could be short. better minor with 4-4
- 1♦ promises 4, 1♣ could be short, always 1♦ with 4-4
- 1♦ promises 4, 1♣ could be short, and balanced hands are opened 1♣ unless the diamonds are 5 or very good
- 1♦ promises 4, all balanced hands are opened 1♣ (even 3352)
- 1♦ promises 5, all balanced and 4441 hands are opened 1♣

Have I missed anything? What is standard in your country? (I thought SAYC is better minor before I looked it up, BTW.) Do you ever discuss this sort of thing with your partners?

[helene_t]

1♣ with 4-4.
This was official Dutch standard last time I checked which is some years ago.
It may seem strange (and unplayable with 1444 and 15-17 points) but the reason is that most 5-card-majorites in the Netherlands have learned a rigid four-cards-up-the-line rule first (the reason being that it's a very simple rule ), and then let evolve through 5-cards spades towards 5-card majors.

[pooltuna]

mgoetze, on 2010-November-10, 09:38, said:

I've been wondering how many different agreements exist about which minor to open in a "natural 5-card majors" context. I also wonder which percentage of bridge players know what their regular partner is playing here. Here's an attempt at a list:

- Better minor
- 1♣ with 3-3 and better minor with 4-4 (I believe this is BWS)
- "Normally" 1♦ with 4-4 and 1♣ with 3-3 (SAYC)
- Always 1♦ with 4-4 and 1♣ with 3-3 (Forum D, and I believe also SEF)
- 1♦ promises 4, 1♣ could be short. better minor with 4-4
- 1♦ promises 4, 1♣ could be short, always 1♦ with 4-4
- 1♦ promises 4, 1♣ could be short, and balanced hands are opened 1♣ unless the diamonds are 5 or very good
- 1♦ promises 4, all balanced hands are opened 1♣ (even 3352)
- 1♦ promises 5, all balanced and 4441 hands are opened 1♣

Have I missed anything? What is standard in your country? (I thought SAYC is better minor before I looked it up, BTW.) Do you ever discuss this sort of thing with your partners?

Generally use better minor with 33 and 1♦ with 44. That does not stop me from opening 1♦ or 1♣ when holding ♦AKx & ♣xxxx in the first and ♦xxxx & ♣AQx in the latter.

[mtvesuvius]

I generally open 1♣ with 3-3, 1♦ with 4-4. I guess this is a born/raised/taught in USA type of thing. More recently I have been experimenting on more randomly opening stuff. One big disadvantage is that when you open 1♦ and show up with only 3, you are known to be exactly 4-4-3-2. Therefore I've been trying to randomize my minor suit openings a bit more... Often opening the weaker of the two, especially with Balanced hands.

I have no earthly idea what my partners do

[awm]

On unbalanced hands, almost everyone playing something "standard-ish" will open the longer minor or 1♦ with equals. There are two possible exceptions:

(1) With 4♦-5♣ and minimum values, some will open 1♦.
(2) With (14)44, some will open 1♣.

I think these are mostly distinct from the preferences about balanced hands. As far as balanced hands go, a couple more styles to mention:

(1) Balanced hands open 1♦ with 5♦ or if holding 4 very good ♦; the 1♣ opening could be short and includes (43)42 when the diamonds are not strong.
(2) Both 1m openings could be short, and balanced hands decide based on high card strength which to open (more common if 1NT=10-12 or weaker).

[Fluffy]

1♣ with 3-3, 1♦ with 4-4, 1♦ with 3-2, this is completelly assumed here, and we call it better minor, anything different from this is not better minor and should be alerted.

This is what french do as well.


In my partnership I play better minor (as explained above) except 3343 wich we open 1♣

[gordontd]

helene_t, on 2010-November-10, 09:52, said:

1♣ with 4-4.
This was official Dutch standard last time I checked which is some years ago.
It may seem strange (and unplayable with 1444 and 15-17 points) but the reason is that most 5-card-majorites in the Netherlands have learned a rigid four-cards-up-the-line rule first (the reason being that it's a very simple rule ), and then let evolve through 5-cards spades towards 5-card majors.

It's not uncommon among UK players either, but that's because they may be playing a weak NT and playing 1♦-2♣-3♣ as non-forcing.

[mgoetze]

Fluffy, on 2010-November-10, 15:47, said:

1♣ with 3-3, 1♦ with 4-4, 1♦ with 3-2, this is completelly assumed here, and we call it better minor, anything different from this is not better minor and should be alerted.

Well, don't, it's not! Better minor means that (on equal length) you open the minor with the better holding, e.g. 1♣ with Kxx Qxxx xxx AKx and 1♦ with Kxx Qxxx AKx xxx.

Of course, people in general don't actually care whether what they call something makes sense. In one club here in Germany, people will tell you they are playing "Standard American" when they mean that they play one of the variants where 1♦ promises 4 cards.

[mtvesuvius]

mgoetze, on 2010-November-10, 17:52, said:

In one club here in Germany, people will tell you they are playing "Standard American" when they mean that they play one of the variants where 1♦ promises 4 cards.

That's because most Americans are stupid.

[Furlan]

1♦ with (41)44 and 1♣ with (23)44 is quite popular around here.

[Siegmund]

One popular (but minority) variation is sort of the opposite of 'better minor': "if you intend to rebid 1NT, open the suit you don't want led against your notrump contract." It's not quite an agreement to always open your worse minor - you still open the longer if they are unequal - but it's a different way of breaking ties with equal length.

[Zelandakh]

Siegmund, on 2010-November-10, 20:42, said:

One popular (but minority) variation is sort of the opposite of 'better minor': "if you intend to rebid 1NT, open the suit you don't want led against your notrump contract." It's not quite an agreement to always open your worse minor - you still open the longer if they are unequal - but it's a different way of breaking ties with equal length.

Weaker minor is a bit of a joke here from Victor Mollo's books. Usually those with this agreement do so concealed when it is obviously very important that it is clearly explained to opps.

[han]

1C with 3-3 or 4-4, this is standard.

[pooltuna]

han, on 2010-November-11, 09:19, said:

1C with 3-3 or 4-4, this is standard.

One of many standards?

[Phil]

Marshall Miles would open 1♦ with a void ♦ and six ♣'s if I understand his system correctly.

[kenrexford]

Within the unbalanced diamond opening that I play, there are some nuances.

1♦ always promises 4+, and 1♣ is always opened with any hand with no 5-card suits and balanced and with any 5332 with no 5-card major (and range correct). However:

Some open 1♣ even with 6322 and six diamonds, some not.
Some open 1♦ with 4♦/5♣ (and maybe even 5422).
Some open 1♦ even with 2-2-7-2.
Some have discretion with 6322/7222 and long diamonds.
Some open 1♣ with an unbalanced hand if the stiff is an honor (even a stiff club honor).

On an unrelated note, I have also seen another somewhat strange approach, and played it for a (VERY) short while, where you would select between 1♣ and 1♦ openings, if balanced, by looking at the majors. With no 3-card majors (each major has either 2 or 4 cards), open 1♦ when balanced; with one or both 3-card majors, open 1♣.

Another odd permutation, similar, is for "random/tactical with balanced" minor openings.

[Free]

There are several standards in my country. But you missed one pretty common deviation: minimum hands with 4♦-5♣ are opened ♦ by some pairs (like mine). The rest is pretty standard: 3-3 = 1♣, 4-4 = 1♦.

Some pairs even allow flexibility with a passed partner.

[MickyB]

Bidding up-the-line, I think there's a lot to be said for short diamond and four-card club

[peachy]

In SAYC, open 1C with 3-3 and 1D with 4-4. The shape 4-4-3-2 is the only time that 1D is on three cards. In US, this is the most common style, also when not playing the SAYC other standard American.

[Zelandakh]

Oh yes, Ken's post reminded me of another approach. Open 1C with a 4 card major, open 1D without one - irrespective of relative lengths in the minors.

Oh and another one still - if balanced, open 1C with 11-14 or 1D with 18-19 (or whichever ranges are not included in your 1NT).