[BunnyGo]

Defense takes two clubs, and then west leads the Qoeen of diamonds to east's Ace. East then leads another diamond.

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The question is: how should one play this hand at different vulnerabilities and scorings? The actual hand was played vulnerable at IMP KOs (no VP conversion) but please feel free to answer as many different scenarios as you think necessary.

At the table, I decided to try and play to make, so I won the diamond and cashed the Ace of spades, which ended up down 2. Should I have played for down 1?

Edit: In response to Inquiry's query: The first club was won by East, who led a club back to West (K and A).

[inquiry]

BunnyGo, on 2010-November-06, 07:27, said:

Defense takes two clubs, and then west leads the Qoeen of diamonds to east's Ace. East then leads another diamond.

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The question is: how should one play this hand at different vulnerabilities and scorings? The actual hand was played vulnerable at IMP KOs (no VP conversion) but please feel free to answer as many different scenarios as you think necessary.

At the table, I decided to try and play to make, so I won the diamond and cashed the Ace of spades, which ended up down 2. Should I have played for down 1?

In general, you should say WHO won the first two clubs and what honors were played. Clearly since WEST won the second one (to be able to lead a ♦, we know west had at least one club honor, and presumably the ♦QJ. This despite EAST had enough to open. Let's assume for a minute that WEST had the ♣A and east the ♣KQ. That gives EAST five points in clubs and four in diamonds. That is nine. So he is marked with the ♠K. Info like that is useful. It is also helpful to know if EW play strong NT or weak NT. The reason is East with say ♠K ♦A ♣KQ and the ♥J with a balanced hand would open 1NT if playing weak NT. That knowledge might affect your line play.

Anyway, with the marked ♠K with EAST (assuming iWEST had a high ♦ honor), you should win ♦ return and cross to dummy in hearts to take the spade hook. Rather or not you hook the ♥J when you cross to dummy is an entire different question, but if you do not hook it, you should preserve one of your low spades as a late entry to dummy (playing 2 to the 3 for instance, but 2 or 6 to 7 will do) for access to a hopefully good ♥T.

As for how to play, this will be general comment. With the ♠ hook winning, they probably can't make 3♣ (you will surely get at least 1♠, 2♥, and a ♦ with a second spade or third heart both a possibility. In addition, a lot of people will be in only 3♠ with your hand. So down any number is going to be a disaster for you, only will down one be worth anything if EW are allowed to play 3♣ and it makes for -110. In this world of LOTT, few will sell out to 3♣'s,

So rather it is imps, BAM, or matchpoints, i think it is best to play to make this one, which revolves around the location of the ♥J and how you guess to play that suit. How to play spades is obvious. What spot cards played in ♣'s and ♦'s might help decide how to play ♥'s. It probably looks like EAST has 4♣ to West's 5, and you need ♠'s to behave (no worse than 3-1), so knowing if they open 1♦ or 1♣ on 4-4 in the minors would be useful too.

[matmat]

For me the opp's VUL and treatment of 3♣ matters. If it was a LR, then settling for one down is possibly a good idea, but if it was either a weak raise (NV) or a mixed raise (V), then I think you play to make, since the odds of spade K being onside are good -- even then you still need good things to happen in hearts.

[lesh]

I think you should win with K♦ and play a ♥ to K, then J of spades, if it wins small spade to the Q then Ace and cash AQhe and go to the dummy with a trump. From the bidding and the lead I suppose East had AQ♣ A♦. It is a fair call to say that he had K♠ as well]. Also 3clubs is preemptive, so with Kxxxxx and QJ9x♦ it would be normal to bid 3♣.

Also whether to hook the J of hearts, I think you should play for the drop because West had 6 clubs for his bid, 1 or 2 spades and 4diamonds, cause I think with 4th diamond and 3rd club East would have opened 1di. So pretty much he is likely to have at least 3hearts, why not even 4. Therefore finessing the 2(3)cards of West is pointless.

[Bbradley62]

BunnyGo, on 2010-November-06, 07:27, said:

At the table, I decided to try and play to make, so I won the diamond and cashed the Ace of spades, which ended up down 2. Should I have played for down 1?

I voted for playing to make in all scoring/vulnerabilities, but (as others have said) this means crossing to the ♥K then playing ♠J, not cashing the ♠A.

[nige1]

BunnyGo, on 2010-November-06, 07:27, said:

Defense takes two clubs. The first club was won by East, who led a club back to West (K and A). Then west leads the Qoeen of diamonds to east's Ace. East then leads another diamond.
The question is: how should one play this hand at different vulnerabilities and scorings? The actual hand was played vulnerable at IMP KOs (no VP conversion) but please feel free to answer as many different scenarios as you think necessary.
At the table, I decided to try and play to make, so I won the diamond and cashed the Ace of spades, which ended up down 2. Should I have played for down 1?

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I agree with inquiry and lesh, at any form of scoring: ♦K, ♥K, finesse ♠J, draw two more rounds of trumps (finessing), cash ♥AQ, cross to dummy in trumps, to cash ♥T (if good) and claim.

[Siegmund]

At other tables, I expect there to be a lot of people stopping in partscores in spades, very few people stopping at 3C or lower, and anybody in 4C EW has a significant risk of going down. In an unusual contract that is a top if it makes and is likely bad even if it's held to down one, of course you play to make at MPs (and at rubber or imp, you're gaining 450 or losing 100 so its that much clearer.)

Since the question was asked -- does that mean that some of you feel you are in a normal-ish contract?

[nige1]

Siegmund, on 2010-November-06, 13:27, said:

At other tables, I expect there to be a lot of people stopping in partscores in spades, very few people stopping at 3C or lower, and anybody in 4C EW has a significant risk of going down. In an unusual contract that is a top if it makes and is likely bad even if it's held to down one, of course you play to make at MPs (and at rubber or imp, you're gaining 450 or losing 100 so its that much clearer.) Since the question was asked -- does that mean that some of you feel you are in a normal-ish contract?

The contract is a bit optimistic. I suppose that if you needed a complete top at MP, you might finesse ♦T or finesse ♥T or try to drop ♠K but these all appear to be extreme measures since prospects of making 4♠ are good by normal play.

[Fluffy]

I want to vote Ben's post positivelly, why cannot I?, moderators are not subejected to the crowd's opinion?

[pooltuna]

BunnyGo, on 2010-November-06, 07:27, said:

Defense takes two clubs, and then west leads the Qoeen of diamonds to east's Ace. East then leads another diamond.

---

The question is: how should one play this hand at different vulnerabilities and scorings? The actual hand was played vulnerable at IMP KOs (no VP conversion) but please feel free to answer as many different scenarios as you think necessary.

At the table, I decided to try and play to make, so I won the diamond and cashed the Ace of spades, which ended up down 2. Should I have played for down 1?

Edit: In response to Inquiry's query: The first club was won by East, who led a club back to West (K and A).

It is really, really wierd that W unled both the A & Q of ♣ and then led the Q♦. So if the bidding is true (i.e. semi sane opps) then all the card locations are marked. Go up with the ♦K play a ♥ to the K and run the marked ♠ finesse and hope that RHO started with 3 or less ♥ cause they should hold the J

[mikeh]

Fluffy, on 2010-November-07, 03:08, said:

I want to vote Ben's post positivelly, why cannot I?, moderators are not subejected to the crowd's opinion?

I echo this post

[inquiry]

I don't know why you guys can't vote administrator post up or down (well, we are not allowing down votes, so just up). I see no reason for the restriction, I myself wanted to vote a couple of post up by rain and fred.

[Free]

I would try to make, whatever form of scoring, but not the way you played. I think we have to place ♠K with East, so you need to play a ♥ to go to dummy. I guess the best chance is to play low to the King and hope for a 3-3 break later on.

[Fluffy]

wow, nice vote distribution

[mikestar13]

I'd give a rule: if you have to ask, play to make. Exception are rare and should be obvious to a good player.

[mfa1010]

I don't see the dilemma?! I cross to ♥K and finesse spades. Why is that not automatic?
I don't have any particular reason to believe that west has 4♥ in the absence of a negative double. So I don't consider playing heart to the T.