[TWO4BRIDGE]

opps silent
MP scoring ( if it matters )
Both Vul

A K x
K Q J 9
10 x
A K 9 x

2NT( 20,21) - 3H!
3S ............ - 4D ( natural )
??
How do you handle this ?
( Responder must have a good reason to go past 3NT, and you assume he must have at least a 5-5, slammish ).

[CarlRitner]

Partner knows my strength to withing one point, now he wants to know about my shape.
Given that he's short in my two chunky suits, I will show my preference to spades.

He's the captain, it's his move.

[Fluffy]

I play 3♥ GF so 3♠ carries a message (with some it shows fit with others it denies).

barring that it is time to show fit with 4♠, its not only that other bids are insane because they go over 4♠, its that they all deny spade fit and show diamonds (except perhans 4NT wich maybe just denies both)

[TWO4BRIDGE]

Below was my hand:

Responder
Q 10 8 x x
A x
K Q 7 x x
x

We got to 6S essentially by brute force.

Afterwards, I suggested something I came up with after a similar hand was posted at rec.games.bridge
a year ago, in August ( Responder has 5M/5m, Slammish by Stig Holmquist ).

If Opener has not fudged his opening, there should be at least a 3 card fit in one of Responder's suits.

With little room to work with I felt the pair needs to find out MISSING key cards with BOTH suits in "focus" ( to use a bit of Ken's terminology )in order to ascertain whether slam is even possible.

So after the 4m bid, Opener should just rebid as if replying to 6 Ace RKC .
My partner in turn suggested that the 4M reply be ommitted in the "step replies" -- so that Opener can make that bid as a "warning" ( a hand that may be offshape or fudged on the hcp or NO high honors in either of the suits in question ). [ Responder with a bigger hand with good "stuff" in both suits would have the option to decline the warning and bid regular 4NT-RKC ] .

After 4D , the 5 step replies become:
4H! = 0/3 ( the very next step after 4D )
4NT! = 1/4
5C = 2 and neither Q
5D = 2 + 1 Q
5H = 2 + 2 Q's

So for the given hand:
2NT - 3H!
3S - 4D
4H!( 0/3 ) - 6D ( for pass or correct)
6S
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Now if Opener had the following hand ( also 20 hcp ):
K x
K Q J x
J 10 x
A K Q J

After Responder's 4D:
5C! = 3rd step = 2 and neither Q

And missing 2 key cards, Responder then signs-off:
5D = pass or correct to 5S

[Zelandakh]

TWO4BRIDGE, on 2010-November-06, 11:09, said:

After 4D , the 5 step replies become:
4H! = 0/3 ( the very next step after 4D )
4NT! = 1/4
5C = 2 and neither Q
5D = 2 + 1 Q
5H = 2 + 2 Q's

Just a small optimisation for you here if you are playing this method. Over 4C, instead of exempting 4S instead make 4D the weakness/misfit call. That allows 4H to be repeat 6KCB and saves space. It would also makes sense to me to reverse 4C and 4D for right-siding purposes. My big concern for this method would be how to sort out the right strain when Responder was 6-5 in the 2 suits, and also how you deal with slam-going 5S4m hands. Note that you do not need this method when Responder's major is hearts since then you can use 3S conventionally by reversing the 3S and 3NT rebids.

[TWO4BRIDGE]

Zelandakh, on 2010-November-06, 11:41, said:

Just a small optimisation for you here if you are playing this method. Over 4C, instead of exempting 4S instead make 4D the weakness/misfit call. That allows 4H to be repeat 6KCB and saves space. It would also makes sense to me to reverse 4C and 4D for right-siding purposes. My big concern for this method would be how to sort out the right strain when Responder was 6-5 in the 2 suits, and also how you deal with slam-going 5S4m hands. Note that you do not need this method when Responder's major is hearts since then you can use 3S conventionally by reversing the 3S and 3NT rebids.

I'm going to run out of Euros ( royalty payments ).
- - - - - - - - - - - - -

5s/5d

In your first sentence, if I use the natural 4D, then "4D" is not available for the weakness/misfit call. But "4H" could be used for that.
However, if I use your suggestion of 4C! ( = Diam ) , then 4D! would be available... ( or for memory purposes, just keep "4H" as the weakness/misfit call = the suit BELOW the Major in each minor case ).

5s/5c

2NT - 3H!
  3S - 4D!( 5c )
.. ??
... 4H! = weakness/misfit
... etc.

- - - - - - - - - - - - -

As for the Hearts case ( 5h/5m ), I don't follow what you mean about reversing the 3S and 3NT bids ?... unless...

.... do you mean:
2NT - 3D!
  3H - ??
.......... 3S! >> relays to 3NT to play
..........3NT! = 5 cards Clubs
.......... 4C! = 5 cards Diam

Then 4D! in either minor case could be the weakness/misfit call ( the suit BELOW the Major ).

- - - - - - - - - - - - -

And as for the 5M/4m, slammish cases, I think I'd just bid 4NT ( quant ) after the transfer with the minor suit undisclosed ;
whereas, 2NT - TEXAS, then 4NT = RKC .

- - - - - - - - - - - - -

I haven't thought much about the 6M/5m case.... other than :
2NT - TEXAS
4M - 6m = choice of slams

[TWO4BRIDGE]

Zel...

Well, I just realized that the weakness/misfit bid of 1-step BELOW 4M does not help when you wanted it to be a low-level 6KCB and then 4M as sign-off.

In some cases you can have a 2-steps BELOW 4M = sign-off and in others you can't.

[Zelandakh]

TWO4BRIDGE, on 2010-November-06, 14:25, said:

Zel...

Well, I just realized that the weakness/misfit bid of 1-step BELOW 4M does not help when you wanted it to be a low-level 6KCB and then 4M as sign-off.

In some cases you can have a 2-steps BELOW 4M = sign-off and in others you can't.

That's why it only works for the specific case with spades plus the suit shown by 4C. The weakness/misfit response needs to be 2 steps below 4M which is not available for the other combinations. It is only a small optimisation.

What I meant about reversing 3S and 3NT is after the sequences 2NT - 3D - 3H. Now most play that 3S shows spades while 3NT is choice of games. But we can handle slam-going hands with hearts and spades via puppet Stayman and 5-5 hands either through puppet Stayman or by transfering to spades first, so we only need to worry about non-slam hands with 5 hearts and 4 spades here. Thus I play that 2NT - 3D - 3H - 3NT shows 5 hearts, 4 spades and is non-forcing. This leaves 3S free as the choice of game hand and gives a second route to 4m. ie

2NT - 3D - 3H - 4m, and
2NT - 3D - 3H - 3S - 3N - 4m

How you split hands between these sequences is a matter for discussion but you might, for example, use the direct 4m bids as over a spade transfer while using the delayed transfers for 5H4m hands. Or vice versa. Or you might use the direct bids as cues agreeing hearts and the delayed version for 2-suiters with the bonus of knowing about the level of fit in both suits. Something like

2NT - 3D - 3H - 3S
3N = 2 hearts
4m = 3 hearts, 3+ minor, decent hand
4H = 3 hearts, bad slam hand

works here and you can even bundle a 1-suited slam try in hearts into this 3S without it causing any problems. Over the 4m bids you can assign 1 bid to RKCB for hearts (4S perhaps) and another to 6KCB for the shown minor (4NT maybe). There's a small amount of wriggle room for optimisation here but not a huge amount. Anyway, the point is that you have more choices over a 3D transfer which allows for at least 1 disadvantage to be removed.

[Fluffy]

I read not long ago that with 6KCW you could treat 2 Queens as 1 extra keycard, then if asked about queens you bid none, it made a lot of sense to me, but haven't tried.

[Free]

How do you show slam invite 5M-4m hands?

[TWO4BRIDGE]

Free, on 2010-November-08, 03:32, said:

How do you show slam invite 5M-4m hands?

I won't show the 4 card minor .

With a 5M/4m and just game values : Transfer to M, then 3NT rebid.

With a 5M/4m and slam invite values: Transfer, then 4NT! = Quantitative ( since the simple transfer only promised 5 cards M ):

2NT - 3H!
3S - 4NT = Quant. ( since Sp is only a 5 card suit)
[ Some folks play that if Opener has 3 cards Major, s/he will reply as RKC ] .

whereas:
2NT - 4H! ( Texas )
4S - ??
.........4NT* = RKC for Sp ( w/6+ card suit )
......or 5C/5D/5H = Exclusion
and
2NT - 3H!
3S - 4S = mild slam try ( w/6+ card suit )
__________________________________________________________________________
* Probably a better method rather than having Responder do the "asking" w/6+M
is to have Responder "telling" ( similar to Meckwell treatment over 1NT open ):

2NT - 3H! ( simple transfer)
3S - ??
....... 5C = 0 ( 3 highly improbable )
....... 5D = 1 ( 4 impossible )
....... 5H = 2 - sQ
....... 5S = 2 + sQ

[Zelandakh]

TWO4BRIDGE, on 2010-November-08, 12:02, said:

I won't show the 4 card minor .

With a 5M/4m and just game values : Transfer to M, then 3NT rebid.

With a 5M/4m and slam invite values: Transfer, then 4NT! = Quantitative ( since the simple transfer only promised 5 cards M ):

2NT - 3H!
3S - 4NT = Quant. ( since Sp is only a 5 card suit)
[ Some folks play that if Opener has 3 cards Major, s/he will reply as RKC ] .

Another option here is to bid a 4 card minor here when accepting the slam try, either at the 5 level or, if you think you need the RKCB responses, at the 6 level. This means that while you are forced to play 4nt when Opener is minimum you still find the 8 card minor fit otherwise. Again with hearts you have an extra option and can use 2NT - 3H - 3S - 4S to show this hand if you like.

[mike777]

TWO4BRIDGE, on 2010-November-05, 17:42, said:

opps silent
MP scoring ( if it matters )
Both Vul

A K x
K Q J 9
10 x
A K 9 x

2NT( 20,21) - 3H!
3S ............ - 4D ( natural )
??
How do you handle this ?
( Responder must have a good reason to go past 3NT, and you assume he must have at least a 5-5, slammish ).

4s

no problem yet.