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Rubensohl vs Transfer Lebensohl

#21 User is offline   straube 

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Posted 2010-November-01, 07:47

View Postmattias, on 2010-November-01, 06:55, said:

After 1NT (2S) we play

X - takeout, including stayman and stopper ask. Opener uses Lebensohl
2N - GI+ with clubs or signoff with a red suit. Opener can superaccept with 3D
3C - GI+with diamonds
3D - GI+ with hearts
3H - 1444 GF
3S - 55 minors GF
3N - to play


This looks promising.

What are your continuations over the X? How does opener use lebensohl?

It seems like your X promises 2+ spades (so opener can pass sometimes).

What do you use over 1N (2H) ? Does 3D show 4144?
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#22 User is offline   Cascade 

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Posted 2010-November-01, 08:16

View Poststraube, on 2010-November-01, 07:47, said:

View Postmattias, on 2010-November-01, 06:55, said:

After 1NT (2S) we play

X - takeout, including stayman and stopper ask. Opener uses Lebensohl
2N - GI+ with clubs or signoff with a red suit. Opener can superaccept with 3D
3C - GI+with diamonds
3D - GI+ with hearts
3H - 1444 GF
3S - 55 minors GF
3N - to play


It seems like your X promises 2+ spades (so opener can pass sometimes).



That is not completely clear to me.

For example, how do you respond with 1=4=(5-3) or even 1=3=(5-4) ?
Wayne Burrows

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dunno how to play 4 card majors - JLOGIC
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Bidding is an estimation of probabilities SJ Simon

#23 User is offline   straube 

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Posted 2010-November-01, 08:50

View PostCascade, on 2010-November-01, 08:16, said:

That is not completely clear to me.

For example, how do you respond with 1=4=(5-3) or even 1=3=(5-4) ?


Yeah. I think you're right. With 4H/5D I suppose he can bid 3C and then rebid 3H, but not with 4H/5C. So he must lump those in with X.

I still like that he gets to show the 5m5m and the 1444 right away.
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#24 User is offline   mattias 

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Posted 2010-November-01, 10:04

View Poststraube, on 2010-November-01, 07:47, said:

This looks promising.

What are your continuations over the X? How does opener use lebensohl?

It seems like your X promises 2+ spades (so opener can pass sometimes).

What do you use over 1N (2H) ? Does 3D show 4144?


The discussion regarding the double below seems to be correct. Basically it promises support for the unbid suits or a gameforcing hand.For the lebensohl part it just means that opener bids 2N with a minimum, and 3 of a suit with max.

Over 1N (2H) we get

X take out
2S to play or a weak invitation.
2N GI+ with clubs or signoff with diamonds
3C GI+ with diamonds
3D GI+ with spades
3H GF 4144
3S GF 55 minors

If the opponents bid show two suits we get

1N (2H showing both majors)

X takeout of both majors (pass + double is penalty)
2S GI 1444 (not optimal use i guess)
2N GI+ with clubs or signoff with diamonds
3C GI+ with diamonds
3D GF 4144
3H GF 1444
3S GF 55 minors


If they don't show any suit

1N (2D any major)

X - diamonds, to play or weak invite (with a takeout D you have to start with a pass)
2M - to play or weak invite
2N GI+ with clubs
3C GI+ with diamonds
3D GI+ with hearts
3H GI+ with spades
3S GF 55 minors

and if they have shown three suits i think you can extrapolate our scheme :-)

Basically, 2S is competitive, 2N is GI with lowest unbid suit or signoff, 3C is GI+ with second lowest unbid suit, etc. for each suit they have shown we have a 4441 GF available, and 3S is GF with 55 in lowest unbid suits.

If they bid something that shows any suits then X is takeout of those suits, otherwise X shows the suit they bid (and a takeout double passes the first round). Pass + D of initially known suit is penalty D.
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#25 User is offline   straube 

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Posted 2010-November-01, 12:49

View Postmattias, on 2010-November-01, 10:04, said:

The discussion regarding the double below seems to be correct. Basically it promises support for the unbid suits or a gameforcing hand.For the lebensohl part it just means that opener bids 2N with a minimum, and 3 of a suit with max.

Over 1N (2H) we get

X take out
2S to play or a weak invitation.
2N GI+ with clubs or signoff with diamonds
3C GI+ with diamonds
3D GI+ with spades
3H GF 4144
3S GF 55 minors

If the opponents bid show two suits we get

1N (2H showing both majors)

X takeout of both majors (pass + double is penalty)
2S GI 1444 (not optimal use i guess)
2N GI+ with clubs or signoff with diamonds
3C GI+ with diamonds
3D GF 4144
3H GF 1444
3S GF 55 minors


If they don't show any suit

1N (2D any major)

X - diamonds, to play or weak invite (with a takeout D you have to start with a pass)
2M - to play or weak invite
2N GI+ with clubs
3C GI+ with diamonds
3D GI+ with hearts
3H GI+ with spades
3S GF 55 minors

and if they have shown three suits i think you can extrapolate our scheme :-)

Basically, 2S is competitive, 2N is GI with lowest unbid suit or signoff, 3C is GI+ with second lowest unbid suit, etc. for each suit they have shown we have a 4441 GF available, and 3S is GF with 55 in lowest unbid suits.

If they bid something that shows any suits then X is takeout of those suits, otherwise X shows the suit they bid (and a takeout double passes the first round). Pass + D of initially known suit is penalty D.



So the bidding goes 1N (2S) dbl P 2N

I assume then that 3m is a suggestion to play (but correctable)while 3H shows 4 hearts and 3S asks for a stopper?
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