[mtvesuvius]

That is why Keycard was invented.

[the hog]

mtvesuvius, on 2010-October-27, 06:56, said:

That is why Keycard was invented.

You think so? The Sharples twins didn't have keycard and they were amongst the best bidders of all time.

[billw55]

bucky, on 2010-October-26, 11:26, said:

This type of question is a manifest of why I think 2/1 system is not for casual partnership. Just agreeing to play 2-over-1-game-force is not good enough (actually not even close to being good). You need LOTS of discussion and agreements to take advantage of the system.

Agree. In particular, there is a vast amount of detail work regarding the meaning of opener's rebids. As this thread shows, there are many methods/treatments/expectations in this department.

To really properly play 2/1 with a new partner that I plan to play with semi-regularly, I would need answers to the following questions at a minimum. There are many ways to answer these. Being on the same page is important, but what two players, in isolation, will answer them all the same?

What does opener's reverse show? (1H-2D-2S)?
What does opener's high reverse show? (1H-2D-3C)?
What does opener's jump rebid show? (1H-2D-3H)?
What does opener's jump shift show? (1H-2C-3D)?
Does opener's simple rebid promise 6 cards? (1H-2C-2H)?
What do opener's jump and non-jump notrump rebids show?
Is 2C over 1D forcing to game?
Is game still forced if responder rebids his suit? (1H-2C-2D-3C)?
In gerenal, who is expected to be captain in a 2/1 sequence?

.. and also answers for several of these questions in forcing 1NT auctions.

[TWO4BRIDGE]

the hog, on 2010-October-27, 07:13, said:

You think so? The Sharples twins didn't have keycard and they were amongst the best bidders of all time.

This always reminds me of Justin's recent post reply:

http://forums.bridge...pic=41586&st=15

QUOTE (manudude03 @ Sep 14 2010, 07:04 AM)
I've heard people say that the best way to improve slam bidding is to not have any ace asking bids at all, then you can phase in whatever to avoid the slams off 2 aces, it will show you how rarely blackwood is actually needed.

Justin Lall :
"Lol what?"

"Keycard is bid on almost every slam hand at all levels, and when it isn't it's usually because there was a quantitative auction like 2N-4N-6N, or the opponents preempted you out of being about to bid keycard. This is not for no reason, keycard is absolutely vital to slam bidding, GL trying to cuebid your way into every slam correctly."

[TWO4BRIDGE]

ajain456, on 2010-October-26, 17:48, said:

I bid 2♠ and now My partner bids 4♠.
Do I have to bid further to proceed to slam?
I did not try for slam.
Am I at fault for not trying slam?
What is the bidding sequence to get to slam in 2/1 method?
Thanks.
Where the opponent at the other table bids grand slam on precision method and made it.
We lost by one imp.

---

My sequence is similar to Mike's ... except that my "cheapest K-ask" is a specific K-ask and if I by-pass the cheapest K-ask, then it is a 3rd Rnd Ctrl-ask in the bid suit ( Q or xx doubleton ):

1S - 2H ( 2/1 GF )
2S(6+) - 3S ( 2 or 3 cards )
4C - 4D
4NT(RKC) - 5H ( 2 - sQ )
5NT - 6C ( cK )
6D( cheapest 2nd K-ask) - 6H ( hK )
??
counting 6s, 2h, 2d, 2c = 12
-- 7NT needs Diam hook
-- 7S needs either a 3-3 Ht split, or hQJ bare, or fall back on Diam hook

( Either needs 3-2 Sp split )

[billw55]

TWO4BRIDGE, on 2010-October-27, 10:00, said:

-- 7S needs either a 3-3 Ht split, or hQJ bare, or fall back on Diam hook

On 4-2 hearts you can ruff out the suit for the 13th trick.

[Bbradley62]

TWO4BRIDGE, on 2010-October-27, 10:00, said:

( Either needs 3-2 Sp split )

Or stiff ♠J.

[bucky]

I would say that 7♠ is quite optimistic, 7NT is REALLY optimistic. Don't you need around 70% to bid a grand?

[TWO4BRIDGE]

Thx billw and Bbradley...
... that makes the odds higher for 7S.

[Zelandakh]

the hog, on 2010-October-27, 01:16, said:

Would south not bid the same way with:

KQJxxxx
xx
Ax
Kx

5NT usually says "bid 7 with 2 of the top 3 hons".

Perhaps you have different bidding rules to me but with such a hand I do not think I would advance to the 5 level with a cue. 5NT is the grand slam force but it is more normal to play responses that make better use of the available space such as 7S for AKQ; 6C for any 1 honour; and 6D/H/NT for KQ/AQ/AK. But you are right that the RKCB auction is better - I just found it amusing to see a way of bidding this which would look at home more than half a century ago.

[TWO4BRIDGE]

bucky, on 2010-October-27, 14:03, said:

I would say that 7♠ is quite optimistic, 7NT is REALLY optimistic. Don't you need around 70% to bid a grand?

7NT is only 50% ( the Diam hook )

7S : Ht split 3-3 .... 35%
..................4-3 .... 48%
.............................83%

Add to that falling back onto the Diam hook: 50% of remaining 17% = 8.5%

.......... or over 91% .
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Both need 3-2 trump split ( 68% ) or 4-1 w/stiff J ( add 5% ) or 73%

7NT: = 73% x 50% = about 37% overall

7S : = 73% x 91% = about 66% overall

[P_Marlowe]

mtvesuvius, on 2010-October-27, 06:56, said:

That is why Keycard was invented.

Sure, but the hand I gave will answer 5S as a response to the 4NT inquiry,
and missing only 1 KC 5S will get raised to 6S.

And one may or may not want to be in 6S with

KQxxxx vs. 10x

as trump suit.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[losercover]

Our bidding would be the same thru the 4S bid. I expect my partner to have a 7 loser hand. With 6 losers they would have bid 3S. The hand is a very nice 7 loser hand. South has a 5 loser hand so the potential is 12 tricks. I would bid KCB and go on to 6 spades.