[epeeist]

Playing in an ACBL tournament, I considered my explanation of a bid (what would fit in the alert window) insufficient, so I sent a private message (using left/right arrow) to opponents (ONLY to the opponents, not to the "table") to explain it.

Opponent complained "No table talk" and called the director! P of course, asked "what table talk?" and had no idea why director was called...

[Free]

Yeah, I also had a similar case before... Some people just don't see the difference between colors, they don't know when it's a private message,...

I also had people which keep on clicking on a bid. I explain for example "weak, 44+ ♦-M" and apparently they just don't understand. Weirdo people sometimes

[KiwiBridge]

"weak, 44+ ♦-M"

I wouldn't understand what that meant either

[spwdo]

Free, on Aug 18 2004, 10:21 PM, said:

I also had people which keep on clicking on a bid. I explain for example "weak, 44+ ♦-M" and apparently they just don't understand. Weirdo people sometimes

Hi,

after giving some time and looking/thinking i think it is 4diamonds and 4 in a major?

but then again i can be totally wrong.


Marc

[Free]

Oooooooooo-kaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay, kiwibridge, if you don't even know what standard abreviations are, how can anyone type a good description of a certain bid with the limited space??

44+ means "at least 4-4" What else?
M means "a Major" What else?
♦ means "Diamonds" What else?
weak means "less than an opening" What else?

All together:
"weak, 44+ ♦-M"
"less than an opening with at least 4 Diamonds and at least for cards in one of the majors"
Both lines mean the exact same thing, but I can't type the last one in that little box to explain a bid, it's just too long...

So yes spwdo, you're almost completely right, since it can also be 5-4 or 4-5 or 5-5,... I think I'll post a list of standard abreviations here somewhere, so at least a little more people will know what everything means.

[epeeist]

Free, on Aug 18 2004, 07:21 PM, said:

Oooooooooo-kaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay, kiwibridge, if you don't even know what standard abreviations are, how can anyone type a good description of a certain bid with the limited space?? 
....
So yes spwdo, you're almost completely right, since it can also be 5-4 or 4-5 or 5-5,...  I think I'll post a list of standard abreviations here somewhere, so at least a little more people will know what everything means.

[excerpt only quoted]

I assume you were being humorously sarcastic (in which case you may ignore the rest of this message), but in case you weren't...

"wk 4♦+ & 4+♥ or ♠"

uses only 17 characters, including spaces, only 4 characters longer than what you wrote (fits in the alert window easily and can be typed quickly) and is FAR more understandable. Less time is wasted by opponents asking repeated questions which are necessary for them to understand what is meant.

Also, just because you post a list of what you consider standard abbreviations to be, doesn't mean they're standard...if the BBO site has a list, or the WBF, or the like, that might be standard (even if most people don't know them ).

[vang]

epeeist, on Aug 18 2004, 09:11 PM, said:

Free, on Aug 18 2004, 07:21 PM, said:

Oooooooooo-kaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay, kiwibridge, if you don't even know what standard abreviations are, how can anyone type a good description of a certain bid with the limited space?? 
....
So yes spwdo, you're almost completely right, since it can also be 5-4 or 4-5 or 5-5,...  I think I'll post a list of standard abreviations here somewhere, so at least a little more people will know what everything means.

[excerpt only quoted]

I assume you were being humorously sarcastic (in which case you may ignore the rest of this message), but in case you weren't...

"wk 4♦+ & 4+♥ or ♠"

uses only 17 characters, including spaces, only 4 characters longer than what you wrote (fits in the alert window easily and can be typed quickly) and is FAR more understandable. Less time is wasted by opponents asking repeated questions which are necessary for them to understand what is meant.

is this a joke or what? imho, Free's explanation was more than obvious.

for the sake of discussion
wk 4♦+ & 4+♥ or ♠
is ambigous. do you describe a hand with ( ♦ + ♥ ) or (only ♠ ) ?

if you insist to be so strict,
wk, 4+♦ & ( 4+♥ or 4+♠ )

[Gerben47]

I would write
weak, 4+♦4+M

Gerben

[Free]

epeeist, on Aug 19 2004, 03:11 AM, said:

"wk 4♦+ & 4+♥ or ♠"

since lots of people don't even know what "wk" is, I still use "weak" instead Also, your explanation is ambigous. In the human world of logic symbols (AND, OR), AND has a higher priority than OR, so your explanation means 44+♦-♥ OR only ♠, which isn't the same. And this in fact IS a world standard...

Abbreviations actually ARE standardized by the WBF, you should download the CCE program from the site, install it, and use the help file to look for the abbreviations! Aparently my explanation of the 2♦ bid would be 'standard' if I'd explained it as "WK 4(+)♦ w/ 4(+)M"

[epeeist]

[quote name='Free' date='Aug 19 2004, 05:15 AM Aparently my explanation of the 2♦ bid would be 'standard' if I'd explained it as "WK 4(+)♦ w/ 4(+)M"[/QUOTE']

[excerpt only quoted]

Actually, I do find this (or Gerben 47's suggestion) much easier to understand; and I do recognize your point about logical operators.

But in any event, if your opponent's don't understand your explanation, they'll ask for more information; and your 1st example would I think be unclear to many. Your 2nd example is much, much better.

[hrothgar]

Free, on Aug 18 2004, 04:21 PM, said:

Yeah, I also had a similar case before... Some people just don't see the difference between colors, they don't know when it's a private message,...

I also had people which keep on clicking on a bid. I explain for example "weak, 44+ ♦-M" and apparently they just don't understand. Weirdo people sometimes

For whats its worth, when playing this convention I normal alert it as

4+ Diamonds and 4+ cards in either major and then follow with a private message

stating something like

"Preemptive opening, could be 4432 denies 4441 or 5440 shape"

really need to figure out how to post stuff on verizon's web site...

[luke warm]

KiwiBridge, on Aug 19 2004, 01:48 AM, said:

"weak, 44+ ♦-M"

I wouldn't understand what that meant either

i'm confused (or i missed something - both explanations are more than possible)... wasn't the director called for an entirely different reason than "don't understand the explanation?"... the director was called because at least one of the opps said "no table talk"... that's a far cry from not understanding the alert

[EricK]

Free, on Aug 18 2004, 01:21 PM, said:

Yeah, I also had a similar case before... Some people just don't see the difference between colors, they don't know when it's a private message,...

I also had people which keep on clicking on a bid. I explain for example "weak, 44+ ♦-M" and apparently they just don't understand. Weirdo people sometimes

I wouldn't be surprised if some people thought that 44+♦-M meant exactly 4 diamonds and at least 4 in one of the majors (with 4+4♦-M and 4+4+♦-M being two other, distinct, possibilities)

Eric

[scoob]

luke warm, on Aug 19 2004, 11:49 AM, said:

KiwiBridge, on Aug 19 2004, 01:48 AM, said:

"weak, 44+ ♦-M"

I wouldn't understand what that meant either 

i'm confused (or i missed something - both explanations are more than possible)... wasn't the director called for an entirely different reason than "don't understand the explanation?"... the director was called because at least one of the opps said "no table talk"... that's a far cry from not understanding the alert

you're correct, but this topic has since been derailed

[JRG]

Hmmm. Anyone know what they scribble on the little notepads they use at the World Bridge Championships (when using screens)?

[Just thought I'd try and get the train onto a track in a different country.]

Despite a 30-year career in the computer field (software and hardware development), I have to admit to an obsessive-compulsive hatred of abbreviations -- it never bothered me to code "BXLE" in a program ("branch Index Less than or Equal" for the curious), but I guess I'm just weird as you should see what happens to the little bit of hair I have left when I read in a book, "... thru ...".

[pclayton]

I've played with screens twice. While the director told us that the only official record of our communication between players was the scratch pads, we just whispered to our screenmate. Never caused a problem.

At other events where I've kibbed, I've seen illegible abbreviations on the scratch pads; certainly not full blown explanations.