[Chamaco]

1♣ (16+):1NT (8-13 bal)
2♣(stayman):3♠ (maximum with 44 in the minors)
?

Now what do you suggest to:
- set ♣ as trump suit asking cuebid
- set ♦ as trump suit asking cuebid
- ask keycards with trumps ♣
- ask keycards with trumps ♦

[jtfanclub]

Interesting. What does a 2NT response to Stayman show in your system?

[Chamaco]

jtfanclub, on Aug 11 2004, 10:16 PM, said:

Interesting. What does a 2NT response to Stayman show in your system?

2♦= min, ♥ and may have another suit, 2NT asks again for side suit
2♥= min, ♠, may have another (no hearts), 2NT asks for side suit
2♠= min, no majors, 2NT asks again for shape
2NT = max 44 ♣+ major
3♣= max 44 ♦+♥
3♦= max 44 majors
3♥= max 44 ♠+♦
3♠= max 44 minors
3NT = max any 4333 or minors 5332

[Free]

I would suggest you use another stayman!!! The GF stayman used in MOSCITO is great imo. It uses transfer responses (2♦ = 4+♥, 2♥ = 4+♠) so it rightsides the contract most of the time. I should look it up, because I don't play that If you would insert 4441 hands as well, I can give it to you (2♠ shows the 4441, without the 4441 it has another meaning ofcourse).

[inquiry]

You use too much room... I assume no five card minor for 1NT

You might try

1C-1N
2C-

2D = 4 hearts - min or 4333
2H = 4 spades - min or 4333
2S = no 4 card major, maximum, hence 4432
2N = 4333 maximum
3C = 4 hearts, 4D max
3D = 4H/4S max
3H = 4S and 4C max
3S = 4S and 4D max
3H = minimum, no four card major

Using this scheme, over 2S you can bid 3 of a minor to start cue bidding and 4 of a minor as minorwood....

A second advantage, teh unbalanced hand is hidden most of the time due ot the transfer type responses, and you can swap 3S and 3NT to cover up the one case where you play in a sut and the 1C bidder is dummy....

Ben

[luke warm]

agree with ben, the 3S bid sure yanked a lot of room.. especially since most play that 3nt now is a bar bid.. it'd be nice to have another relay available to ask for controls, so you can start scanning

[jtfanclub]

Chamaco, on Aug 11 2004, 05:21 PM, said:

jtfanclub, on Aug 11 2004, 10:16 PM, said:

Interesting.  What does a 2NT response to Stayman show in your system?

2♦= min, ♥ and may have another suit, 2NT asks again for side suit
2♥= min, ♠, may have another (no hearts), 2NT asks for side suit
2♠= min, no majors, 2NT asks again for shape
2NT = max 44 ♣+ major
3♣= max 44 ♦+♥
3♦= max 44 majors
3♥= max 44 ♠+♦
3♠= max 44 minors
3NT = max any 4333 or minors 5332

Huh.

Have you considered switching the meanings of 3♦ and 3♠?

Seems to me you'd then have plenty of room, using 3♥, 3♠ as the cue bids, and 4♣ and 4♦ as Minorwood. You then have a little less space with 3♠ for the majors, of course, but you can use 4♣/4♦ as Blackwood and 4♥/4♠ as light slam invites (pass to decline, of course).

[Free]

I don't think there's need to know if partner is maximum or minimum. He has limited his hand quite well, and from experience I know that 5-point ranges in a GF auction don't need to show if they're min or max. It's top honours that count for slam, these silly Jacks usually aren't that important.

Btw, why do you use 2NT as 'asking for sidesuit' after showing a 4-card M? Aren't you interested in the EXACT shape? Or do you want 2M to be a trump asking bid?

Anyway, here's what I'd suggest (looked it up):

2♦ = 4+♥
-- 2♥ = relay
-- -- 2♠ = 4♠ (so 4-4 ♠-♥)
-- -- 2NT = 5332
-- -- 3♣ = 4♦ (so 4-4 ♥-♦)
-- -- 3♦ = 2-4-3-4
-- -- 3♥ = 3-4-2-4
2♥ = 4+♠, no 4♥
-- 2♠ = relay
-- -- 2NT = 5332
-- -- 3♣ = 4♦ (so 4-4 ♠-♦)
-- -- 3♦ = 4-2-3-4
-- -- 3♥ = 4-3-2-4
2♠ = 4333 hands
-- 2NT = relay
-- -- 3♣ = 4 card minor
-- -- -- 3♦ = relay
-- -- -- -- 3♥ = 3-3-4-3
-- -- -- -- 3♠ = 3-3-3-4
-- -- 3♦ = 4-3-3-3
-- -- 3♥ = 3-4-3-3
2NT = 5332 with 5♦
3♣ = 4-4 ♣-♦
3♦ = 2-3-3-5
3♥ = 3-2-3-5
3♠ = 3-3-2-5

After basic shape is known, the next step asks for shortage, and that shortage is bid in steps from high to low. It's quite symmetric, so it's also easy to remember.

[twcho]

You can try the Viking Club relay structure (very powerful and logical imho):

1C-1NT (1NT = 8-13, no 5 card M, for range 8-10, you can include even 5422. For 11-13, 5422 shape is excluded)
2C-?

2D= 11-13
2H=8-10, 4H
2S=8-10, 4S, deny 4H
2NT=8-10, no 4M, no 5m
3C=8-10, 5332 with long C
3D=8-10, 5332 with long D
3H=8-10, 2245 exact
3S=8-10, 2254 exact
3NT=11-13, 3334 exact

After the above response, the 1C opener add one step to relay for the exact shape, e.g. 1C-1NT-2C-2H-2S-?
2NT=4S
3C=4C
3D=4D
3H=3433 exact
3S=2425 exact
3NT=2452 exact

After 1C-1NT-2C-2D-2H-?
Then:
2S=4S
2NT=4H, no 4S
3C=5332 with long C
3D=5332 with long D
3H=2344 exact
3S=3244 exact
3NT=3343 exact

Using this structure, the only hand pattern that will give u pass 3nt before you can relay the responder's exact hand pattern is 2353 exact (the sequence being 1C-1NT-2C-2D-2H-3D-3H-4C or 1C-1NT-3D-3H-4C)

[pclayton]

We used to play a similar structure.

4♣ is an all purpose control ask.
4♦ is TAB.

Now we play 1♣-1♠ is either:

1. 8-10 balanced
2. 14+ balanced
3. any GF 2 suiter

1N relays:

A. 2♣=2 suiter
B. 2 level bids = 14+
C. 3 level bids (essentially) - 8-10

1♣-2♠=11-13 balanced.
2N is now stayman:

1. 3♣ = neither
2. 3♦/3♥=trasnfers
3. 3♠/3N = bad suit in clubs and diamonds

I like this set up because:

1. The strong always plays the NT
2. It eliminates the bulky 1♣-2N auctions to show 14+. Now 14+ hands are dealt with at the 2 level ...lots of room to go fishing.
3. You can shows the 2 suiters in a real neat fashion. I haven't shown the entire response structure, but you can show all 2 suiters under 2N.

[Chamaco]

Free, on Aug 12 2004, 02:02 AM, said:

Btw, why do you use 2NT as 'asking for sidesuit' after showing a 4-card M? Aren't you interested in the EXACT shape? Or do you want 2M to be a trump asking bid?

1) any suit that does not "accept" pard's xfer is Support Asking Bid

2) As I wrote before, my current teammates would kill me if I propose a full relay structure. That means that for memory issue, every bid should be linked to one or at most 2 pieces of info; remembreing all the steps for various shapes and the meaning of the next realays and related responses is absolutely unfeasible right now.

But I like the structure you gave ! Thanks !