[masse24]

Scoring: IMP

South opens 1♥...

Using 2/1 GF as your system, bid it:

---

...a bit of a disagreement about North's first bid.

[quiddity]

1♥ 1♠
3♦ 3♥
4♥ 4NT
3kc  Q-ask
Q+DK 7NT?

[aguahombre]

quiddity, on Oct 15 2010, 07:21 PM, said:

1♥ 1♠
3♦ 3♥
4♥ 4NT
3kc  Q-ask
Q+DK  7NT?

Everything except the question mark. Others might have kickback, but who cares?
Responder knows what he needs to know.

[keylime]

1♥ - 1♠
3♦ - 3♥
3♠* (cuebid) - 4♣* cuebid
RKC, answer, grand slam

[wank]

1H - 1S - 3D - 3H would be simple preference. as such 3S is most definitely not a cue-bid, but patterning out.

opener doesn't have much to spare for his GF - singleton A of partner's suit and doubleton Q in the unbid suit are not looking ideal.

so obviously he's just going to raise to 4H but then responder can take over with keycard and get to 7nt

[Cascade]

Seems like the theme of the week.

Do you or do you not bid 1♠ over 1♥ with GF balanced hands?

I can't see any reason not to here as it seems likely from responder's point of view early in the auction that this is most likely a choice between heart or spade (if opener has a fit) game/slam.

Of course some who don't bid 1♠ will have a method to immediately find a four-four spade fit.

[mike777]

1h=2d(not 1s please!!)
4d(huge hand)=4h(rkc in d not hearts!!)
4n(1-4)=7nt(or you can mess around and decide to bid 7d or 7nt.)

again no surprise bidding 2/1 with bal gf after 1`h made the bidding easy.

[mike777]

Cascade, on Oct 15 2010, 10:04 PM, said:

Seems like the theme of the week.

Do you or do you not bid 1♠ over 1♥ with GF balanced hands?

I can't see any reason not to here as it seems likely from responder's point of view early in the auction that this is most likely a choice between heart or spade (if opener has a fit) game/slam.

Of course some who don't bid 1♠ will have a method to immediately find a four-four spade fit.

no 2d

[the hog]

mike777, on Oct 16 2010, 10:10 AM, said:

1h=2d(not 1s please!!)
4d(huge hand)=4h(rkc in d not hearts!!)
4n(1-4)=7nt(or you can mess around and decide to bid 7d or 7nt.)

again no surprise bidding 2/1 with bal gf after 1`h made the bidding easy.

roflmao
Why is 4H not to play?

[mike777]

The_Hog, on Oct 15 2010, 10:20 PM, said:

mike777, on Oct 16 2010, 10:10 AM, said:

1h=2d(not 1s please!!)
4d(huge hand)=4h(rkc in d not hearts!!)
4n(1-4)=7nt(or you can mess around and decide to bid 7d or 7nt.)

again no surprise bidding 2/1 with bal gf after 1`h made the bidding easy.

roflmao
Why is 4H not to play?

impossible for 4hto be toplay...nonsense
1) 2d=14+
2)4d=huge hand
3) 4h is the only way to bid rkc for d...per agreement it must be rkc..in other words with14+ across from huge hand....4h is never to play. IN other words even if 2d could be less than 14....but gf responder can never play in 4h playing kickback.

[aguahombre]

Please make this simple hand which is an easy 7NT as difficult as possible.

Although our style would not choose 1S as a first response, for a different reason, nothing matters when responder shows tolerance for hearts and then RKC for hearts.

[mike777]

fwiw Ithink after:
1h=1s
3d=?your next bid here is not easy.....3h or 4d?

[ONEferBRID]

A few observations.
Take the 2/1 auction first ( my personal favorite):

1H - 2D!
3D - 3H ( 3 cards.. double fit )
3S(cue) - 4C(cue)
4D(cue) - 4S! or 4NT! .. RKC for Hts

1a) Let's say North finally takes control ( RKC ) after appropriate cue bidding.
North can find the hQ and dK, but he can't count on the Hts running if South
has only 5 cards and no Ht Jack. North doesn't know of South's 6th Ht.

1b ) But North can count to 13 tricks in 7D ( normal split ) if he has to ruff a Ht.

2) If South takes control with RKC for Hts, he finds the remaining key cards and the Sp King. On the 2nd k-ask, North must bid 7D.
If he just bids 6H ( no cK ) the auction will die there:

1H - 2D!
3D - 3H ( 3 cards, double fit )
3S - 4C
4S!( RKC for Hts) - 5D ( 3rd step = 2 - hQ )
5S! ( K-ask) - 5NT ( sK )
6C! ( 2nd K-ask ) - 6H ( no cK or dK )

[masse24]

1♠?
* OR *
2♦?


.....this was the reason for the Original Post...1♠? or 2♦? and, it seems we have a difference of opinion here as well[B].

Why not 1♠?

Why not 2♦?

Would appreciate some additional insight.

Thanks!

[Phil]

masse24, on Oct 17 2010, 10:19 PM, said:

1♠?
* OR *
2♦?


.....this was the reason for the Original Post...1♠? or 2♦? and, it seems we have a difference of opinion here as well[B].

Why not 1♠?

Why not 2♦?

Would appreciate some additional insight.

Thanks!

2♣.......!

I use to laugh about bidding like this.

Or, 2N natural (and others laugh at me )

[Cascade]

I just laugh when they call it natural

[Cascade]

Without a method to immediately or easily find your spade fit without distorting responder's shape then I think 1♠ is better.

I am sure most of those who advocate 2♦ (or 2♣) have further agreements about these auctions.

[P_Marlowe]

masse24, on Oct 17 2010, 10:19 PM, said:

1♠?
* OR *
2♦?


.....this was the reason for the Original Post...1♠? or 2♦? and, it seems we have a difference of opinion here as well[B].

Why not 1♠?

Why not 2♦?

Would appreciate some additional insight.

Thanks!

If you cant show the heart support at once, either via 2NT (call it what ever
you like, I call it Jacoby 2NT) or via 2C (either clubs or bal. with hearts supp
- if I remember it correctly), than 1S is the bid.

You bid 4-4 suits up the line, and since your lowest suit is spade, you dont even
need to ask yourself minor before / after major?
Besides 1S gives you the most room, it allowes p to describe his hand, over 2D,
he may be forced to make a nondescribtive 2H rebid.

Bidding 2D, just to generate a GF auction showes fear in not being able to handle
FSF auctions, the fear may be justified, but in this case work on your FSF auctions,
which will help you a lot anyways.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[Free]

masse24, on Oct 18 2010, 04:19 AM, said:

1♠?
*                    OR                      *
2♦?


.....this was the reason for the Original Post...1♠? or 2♦? and, it seems we have a difference of opinion here as well[B].

Why not 1♠? 

Why not 2♦? 

Would appreciate some additional insight.

Thanks! 

Neither, I prefer 2♣. Once you have agreements that this can be short, it's a much better treatment imo.

2♣>>>>1♠>some sort of support>>>>>>>>>>>>>2♦.

Bidding 2♦ is a joke, many people try to get 2/1 to be a 5 card suit all the time (at the expense of 2♣ possibly short) and all of a sudden we would bid this crappy suit 2/1 and skipping ♠? No thanks!

[ONEferBRID]

I'm not a fan of 2C! = artificial GF..... but I haven't studied it at length.

But I'm certainly not a fan of 1♠ with a GF Responder.
What if Opener were not as strong and made a 2♦ rebid ?

1H - 1S
2D - ?? Now you need 3C! ( 4th suit ) to GF, and at what level do you think you can show your Ht support and slammish at the same time ? ... not to mention your double-fit.... without fear of passout ?

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
When Responder employs a natural 2D! GF, it does not deny 3 card Ht support
which can conveniently be made at the 3-level on the next round of bidding....
without fear of a passout. In fact on this hand the DOUBLE-fit can be found out at the 3-level ! ... sweet!