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Hamstrung vs short diamond Live wih it, or what?

#1 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2010-October-14, 10:13

Versus a 1 "0+" opening style which might have 6 clubs (yes some people do not use 2 as a natural bid in their forcing club system), we are frequently blocked out.

Righty opens one of those 1 bids. What is an effective way to handle, say, a 2-3-5-3 hand with not quite enough to stretch a 1NT overcall? The field will be getting to overcall 1/1.

Our answer, thus far, has been to pass and live with it, since opener might easily have a natural opening in diamonds. Is Double showing virtually any opening bid without a five-card major workable, or is that too much strain on advancer? Frequent 4-cd major overcalls?

(Question was given to me, but I personalized it because I don't have a good answer and would probably be hamstrung, too.)
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#2 User is offline   straube 

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Posted 2010-October-14, 10:24

I think if I had a 2353 pattern, I would most likely overcall 2D with a hand that was good enough to overcall a 1H opening.

I'd use dbl to only promise support for the majors (3-3, 3-4, 4-3, 4-4) or a very big hand. If my partner responded 2C, he'd be on his own because I might have 4-4-4-1 for instance. If he responded 2D, I would take that as a cue bid...not because it's impossible for him to have diamonds, but because we need a cue bid and partner has pass and 1N as other options.
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#3 User is offline   spotlight7 

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Posted 2010-October-14, 10:39

Hi:

They mentioned(during a recent Vugraph) that a number of players used 1D-2D natural over a Precision style 1D bid. They also used 1D-2H as Michaels for the majors.

The hand that I watched 'only' had a five card suit, but it was AKQ10x :)

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#4 User is offline   kayin801 

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Posted 2010-October-14, 11:37

My partner and I play 2 as nat here, but it shows a great 5-bagger or a good 6, and a better-than-min opening hand at least. So with OPs example shape we might overcall with Ax, Qxx, AKJxx, xxx but not with Ax, AQx, Q10xxx, Qxx. We definitely prefer some more shape than that though, but AKJxx is AKJxx.
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#5 User is offline   dake50 

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Posted 2010-October-14, 13:09

Look at the overcall structure. Most of the weak interfering bids immediately seem effective.
Untangle a few strong cases:. I'm thinking 1H as no space used can have strong cases. Dbl has other strong cases. Q-bid then some rebids are strong (2-suiters). 2NT as big H+2nd seems to fit.
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#6 User is offline   nigel_k 

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Posted 2010-October-14, 13:12

You need to be able to overcall 2 natural. If you mean that you are hamstrung when the diamonds are too weak to overcall 2 and the hand is too weak to overcall 1NT then, yes, I am definitely willing to live with it.

If you want to change something, allow a 1NT overcall a point or so lighter. But don't double offshape.
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#7 User is offline   the hog 

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Posted 2010-October-14, 19:34

We played that a 2D bid was natural. Mind you, it had to show a pretty good suit. We also played frequent 4 card major openings.
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#8 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2010-October-14, 20:07

The_Hog, on Oct 14 2010, 07:34 PM, said:

We also played frequent 4 card major openings.

I assume you mean overcalls, since that would be on topic.

Where the people who asked me had the problems was with the not-great five card diamond suit. My original advice to just live with it seems to hold up.

I did tell them that perhaps stretching the 1NT overcall down a notch would pick up some of the slack.
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#9 User is offline   Mbodell 

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Posted 2010-October-14, 22:34

Yeah, I think a natural 2 is pretty standard. Also worth considering that 2 as a cue advancing a suit overcall probably shouldn't be natural. So 1* - 1 - P - 2 can be a strong raise cue (or transfer advance or whatever).

Another approach when there is a balanced nt range as well as the unbalanced hands is to treat the 1 opening like nt and play your nt system at the 2 level (just figure out which hands that are balanced go in the 1).
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#10 User is offline   Free 

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Posted 2010-October-15, 01:31

I wonder how you can ever overcall 1 :angry:

My advice: play the 2 overcall natural. If you really want a michael's cuebid, use 2 for that.
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#11 User is offline   PrecisionL 

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Posted 2010-October-15, 07:25

See David Stevenson's Defence to Short Minors:

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.b...123?dmode=print

He claims that ACBL's Mike Flader says it is legal.
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#12 User is offline   pooltuna 

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Posted 2010-October-15, 13:07

Free, on Oct 15 2010, 02:31 AM, said:

I wonder how you can ever overcall 1 ;)

My advice: play the 2 overcall natural. If you really want a michael's cuebid, use 2 for that.

Second question would be is the double of an overcalled 1 call for penalties :)
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#13 User is offline   Zelandakh 

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Posted 2010-October-16, 06:55

Another possibility...

1M = natural
1N = overcall in either minor
2C = (15)16-18 (semi-)bal
2D = wjo in H or S; or S + minor, strong
2H = H and S weak
2S = S + minor, weak
2N = H + minor, weak/strong
3C = wjo
3D = H and S, strong

You do have to play a natural 1NT overcall at the 2 level of course...
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