[RichMor]

NickRW, on Oct 15 2010, 10:50 AM, said:

Well, it seems to me that 3♦ over 2N needs to be forcing to stand a chance of dealing with this, given the conditions imposed by the OP.  I thought 1x-1M-2N-3M was forcing, choice of games for all but beginners - why should this be any different?

Agree.

[2Macchiato]

Most normal people would be passing 2N through weakness. Therefore 3D is very much forcing - partner can easily co-operate with a cue bid.

Alternatively 2N as a strong (18-19 balanced) fit raise (good honour support) and 3N as a value bid with no ambition in diamonds (e.g. xxx/xx/Jx types) balanced 18-19 is perfectly reasonable agreement.

[keylime]

If I was allowed to use my strong club system, Larry and I would need to book an overnight stay at the Holiday Inn to complete bidding the hand.

[Viren169]

We have all been in silly 3N contracts when game/slam elsewhere is on.

However, how about something like this...

1C 1D
2N 3D (F2G)
3H 4C (Cue bids)
4N 5D (1 key card)
6D

How bad can slam be?!?!

BR
Viren

[dake50]

What's my C-splinter bid over 2N? I try that.

[Harlan]

Play ALL transfers over an 18-19 2N rebid. There is virtually no hand you can't show. Here, after 3♣-3♦, responder should be showing 6+ good ♦ after not passing 3♦. With 5+♦ & 4M, South just transfers to the 4-card major. Playing ALL transfers also lets you play in 3♦ if needed.

There are only two transfers that opener can decline:

1.) 1x-1y // 2N-3♠, the transfer to 4♣ maybe declined. However, if responder still bids 4♣, that is to play.

2.) 1x-1♥ // 2N-3♥. Since responder can have only 4♥ along with 4♠, opener should only bid 3♠ with 4+♠. Else, opener bids 3N.

After this discussion, there is probably a third time the transfer might be declined. Namely, 1♣-1♦ // 2N-(3♦ or 3♥) where opener only accepts the transfer to the major with 4-card support. I just never thought about this sequence since we often by-pass 1♦ to bid our major unless we have EXTRAS.

[How to show (5+♥ & 4♠) OR (5+♠ & 4+♥) are exercises left to the reader. ]

[mike777]

This looks like another disaster for short club that has shown up on the forums.


After opening 1d......getting to 6d seems easy.

[dellache]

I'd be in 5♦, playing short Club. We start 1♣ 3♦, showing INV Hand w/ 6 good diamonds. Finding the slam would have been too difficult, no way for us to find the perfect match afterwards.

[Fluffy]

NickRW, on 2010-October-15, 09:50, said:

I thought 1x-1M-2N-3M was forcing, choice of games for all but beginners?

Not sure if I understood you correctly, all experts I know play 3♣ relay for finding out what game to play, and use 3M for stablishing trumps start cuebiding and look for slam.

[altane]

3!d always forcing +5 card

[mikeh]

Transfers are, imo, the best method for advancing over 2N rebids, altho forms of wolff are not bad either. i think it silly to suggest S commit beyond 3N....just because we open 1♣ on 4432 doesn't mean that 1♣ denies, say, KJx KJx Ax KQJxx.

Playing transfers, one might well bid 3♣, transferring to 3♦ (which is a mandatory transfer since responder may be passing...see how transfers gain over 'rebid is forcing'?) and then bid 3N, showing some doubt about 3N. North now has at least some chance of doing the right thing. But, having said that, I don't see that it is clear for either player, in real life, to avoid 3N playing these methods (and since I like these mathods, I am not going to complain....every method ever devised has hands that don't work, and so this is one...big deal).

[gnasher]

mikeh, on 2010-October-30, 22:39, said:

Transfers are, imo, the best method for advancing over 2N rebids, altho forms of wolff are not bad either. i think it silly to suggest S commit beyond 3N....just because we open 1♣ on 4432 doesn't mean that 1♣ denies, say, KJx KJx Ax KQJxx.

Playing transfers, one might well bid 3♣, transferring to 3♦ (which is a mandatory transfer since responder may be passing...see how transfers gain over 'rebid is forcing'?) and then bid 3N, showing some doubt about 3N. North now has at least some chance of doing the right thing. But, having said that, I don't see that it is clear for either player, in real life, to avoid 3N playing these methods (and since I like these mathods, I am not going to complain....every method ever devised has hands that don't work, and so this is one...big deal).

Yes, having methods to show diamond length doesn't help much when the key feature is the club shortage.

[TWO4BRIDGE]

mikeh, on 2010-October-30, 22:39, said:

...... altho forms of Wolff are not bad either.....

I thought Wolff is only used after:
1m - 1M
2NT

What are Wolff sequences ( do they really exist ) after
1C - 1D
2NT - ??