[hanp]

Last Monday I had the pleasure of playing at the club with the one and only ewj.

We had a couple of bad boards, I think I was responsible for this one:

Qxx
Kx
AK9xx
Kxx

AKx
Q10x
Qxx
AQxx

North opened 1NT, south bid 4NT, north passed. Of course 6NT was quite good, who gets the blame here?

No credit for answering hanp without showing your work.

[Cyberyeti]

If I blame anybody it would be south, who seems to be between 4N and 6N. If you assume that you want to be bidding this on any 33 count (in the absence of being able to find out that you're missing a cashing AK) and some good 32 counts, I think there are significantly more hands that will fail to bid 6N and make it, than will not make 6N if you bid it.

If I was bidding this as south, I'd get to find out partner had 5 diamonds and two of the 3 missing keycards, so would not be staying out of a slam.

Edited to add our methods over 1N:

1N-2♣-2♦-3♥-4♦-4♥-5♣-6N

3♥ minor suit enquiry
4♦ 5♦
4♥ keycard
5♣ 2 without

[Free]

I blame you for not playing English ACOL with him.

[jillybean]

South

[mikeh]

I don't blame anyone in particular. Methods play a role, but unless one plays relay over 1N, S is really just guessing.

Both players could have been aggressive rather than middle-of-the-road. S could force to slam (maybe after gerber to ensure not off 2 Aces, but could still be AK red suit on lead) and N could upgrade because of the diamond suit, but both of those actions seem a little much to me.

[gwnn]

I think you were North and you think North could have accepted. I think neither player is clearly to blame, you just have to accept missed slams in some boards. I guess South might force to slam on grounds that most Souths will also just jump to slam (in most fields). Also, I see why North could have accepted since he would probably accept a balanced invitation to game. I am not sure; overall I give 5% to South and 10% to North maybe (these are non-renormalisable percentages).

edit: bollocks, now everyone will think I was copying Mikeh!!! I swear I started writing this post before he finished his

This post has been edited by gwnn: 2010-September-29, 09:29

[CSGibson]

Methods more than anything. I prefer to play that 4N asks opener to bid slam with a maximum, and that 4S asks opener to bid slam with a non-minimum (both with Baron-type responses). This hand would probably have gone the 4 spade route for me, and partner would have gone with the good diamond suit.

[aguahombre]

At the club, without Cs' methods, maybe South should take this very close decision and do what the rest of em will. At my club, that would be blast to six.

[hanp]

I appreciate the mild responses.

However, I think that a combined blame of 15% is too little. Opposite a balanced 15-count, south will make 6NT 62% of the time, double dummy. That should be enough to bid slam. And north doesn't have to accept or reject at this point, he can just bid 5D, and pass if partner bids 5NT. It seems very unlikely that 4NT goes down. When north does make any sound, south has an easy 6NT call.

[gwnn]

I have always played 5D as showing an accept with 5 cards; also I am not so sure whether it's very unlikely that 5NT goes down, I assume that's what you meant?

[pooltuna]

hanp, on Sep 29 2010, 07:48 AM, said:

Last Monday I had the pleasure of playing at the club with the one and only ewj.

We had a couple of bad boards, I think I was responsible for this one:

Qxx
Kx
AK9xx
Kxx

AKx
Q10x
Qxx
AQxx

North opened 1NT, south bid 4NT, north passed. Of course 6NT was quite good, who gets the blame here?

No credit for answering hanp without showing your work.

just bad luck IMO that happens with quantitative raises.

[aguahombre]

hanp, on Sep 29 2010, 11:09 AM, said:

Opposite a balanced 15-count, south will make 6NT 62% of the time, double dummy.

On your sims, is it true that with a balanced 15-count, North will make 6NT 62% of the time, double dummy opposite South's hand?

I think this different wording applies to the hand in question, but don't know if the percentage is the same for the sim hands you used.

[whereagles]

There's a version of keri that helps here.

1NT 2♠
2NT 4NT
6NT

2♠ = range inquiry
2NT = min
4NT = how min?
6NT = good min (due to nice suit)

[jdonn]

whereagles, on Sep 29 2010, 02:46 PM, said:

There's a version of keri that helps here.

1NT 2♠
2NT 4NT
6NT

2♠ = range inquiry
2NT = min
4NT = how min?
6NT = good min (due to nice suit)

That is commonly played when not playing keri as well, 2♠ as range ask or clubs.

[nigel_k]

No blame. Both actions are maximum but reasonable.

Slam making 62% of the time double dummy on this hand type does not mean slam would make 50% of the time in real life. Declarer has almost all the decisions and there is huge scope to gain a trick with two balanced hands when you can see all the cards. On the actual cards you pick up J10xx of diamonds onside double dummy. That's an extra 8.4% just to start.

[jonottawa]

In this auction with this result, the blame always goes to the person with the better hand. In this case, I'd say that's South.

[whereagles]

jonottawa, on Sep 29 2010, 09:00 PM, said:

In this auction with this result, the blame always goes to the person with the better hand. In this case, I'd say that's South.

So you blame it on the richest guy? Are you a communist or something?

[ONEferBRID]

hanp, on Sep 29 2010, 07:48 AM, said:

Last Monday I had the pleasure of playing at the club with the one and only ewj.

We had a couple of bad boards, I think I was responsible for this one:

Qxx
Kx
AK9xx
Kxx

AKx
Q10x
Qxx
AQxx

North opened 1NT, south bid 4NT, north passed. Of course 6NT was quite good, who gets the blame here?

No credit for answering hanp without showing your work.

Looking at just the South hand with all those Q's if North has 1 Ace and the remaining 3 Kings, 6NT should be a good bet even if North does not have a 5 card suit.
Likewise, if North has the remaining 2 Aces and 2 Kings.

So go 4C! Gerber and then 5C! for Kings... Sign-off in 5NT if it fails the criteria above.... (or sign-off in 4NT if off 2 Aces ).

[jonottawa]

But if one partner tried to lay full blame on the other here, I'd blame him more.

Might try 6♦ or 5N (were you kidding?) with N.

My rule is that when I open 1N and pard has 17, we get to slam unless we know we're off 2.

[bucky]

Neither did anything terribly wrong, although either could have pushed a little bit (and gets blame if the slam goes down).

If you want to be scientific without changing existing structure below 4NT, one idea is to use 5-level suit to say "I have a reasonable 5-card suit but I need help". So for this hand it can go 1NT 4NT 5♦, partner bids 6NT (or 6♦ in imp) with diamond fit/honor, stop at 5NT without.