[FrancesHinden]

awm, on Oct 12 2010, 12:06 AM, said:

My experience was that many pairs did not have a filled out card, and that very few had a thoroughly filled out one.

My experience was the most pairs had a filled out card, but if you wanted to see it you had to ask for it. Playing with screens, most people seem to prefer simply asking what things mean rather than looking at the card.

When we sat EW, my partner put his (beautfilly filled out) card in his pocket. It stayed there for the full session, no-one showed any desire to see it.

[paulg]

gnasher was the only player in the pairs to voluntarily offer a card to me.

In the teams it was different and friendlier, since you were playing 16-board sets.

[blackshoe]

I wonder how all these people who never bother with System Cards would feel if the rules were changed to not require them.

[manudude03]

I know this has been said before, but...

While I can see why a lot of people don't bother with the WBF convention card, there really isn't any excuse for not having it filled out completely. While it might be different for anyone in ACBL (where the ACBL CC would usually suffice), there are only 2 occasions where a pair would have to spend a long time on the WBF card:

1. The first time you make the convention card.
2. You have a major system overhaul.

On any other occasion, it would only take a few minutes at most to make any necessary changes. I may as well add that that I have been required to make WBF cards for much lesser events (mainly for peggy bayer and junior camrose in UK, and was even asked for one at a local congress pairs event!). Even if you weren't doing it by requirement, I would certainly recommend any upcoming pair to spend some time making one of these, it might just reveal some holes in their system or clear up some misunderstandings.

[Gerben42]

In the German top leagues, you are supposed to fill out a German big convention card at the same format as the WBF one. So for a world championship, you just need to translate it.

Unfortunately, this means that many pairs who have played internationally just bring their English card with them. I don't care, but I know some whose English is less than perfect and this might cause a problem.

[paulg]

WBF cards are more popular in Scotland as they are required for all international trialists and the card is acceptable at clubs as well as tournaments.

[NickRW]

I think WBF cards are discouraged in most EBU events - not really sure why - they seem clear enough.

Not sure what Germans are thinking presenting a WBF card in English to other Germans in Germany for! Not spent that much time in Germany but I have in Austria - it seems to me that though quite a few are fluent/near fluent in English, a lot are not.

In general, there isn't time to consult cards (in whatever format) in short round events - and indeed, though the rules say you should have one - the organisers actually don't allow sufficient time to realistically make it possible. In head to head team matches they do get looked at - but there sometimes isn't a director hassling you to keep up and, even if there is, rounds are long enough to at least allow paying attention to the important points and leave it open at the opps carding methods page.

[gordontd]

NickRW, on Oct 18 2010, 03:09 PM, said:

I think WBF cards are discouraged in most EBU events - not really sure why - they seem clear enough.
<snip>
In general, there isn't time to consult cards (in whatever format) in short round events

I think this is the reason for WBF cards not being allowed in most events - if you look at a card that's in a format you're familiar with, you can get the information you want quickly and easily. If it's in an unfamiliar format - no matter how clear - it's harder and slower to find what you want.

[NickRW]

Well, people say this. However, I used to have an EBU20B I think it is - the 2 page one - filled it up completely. Then we revamped the system and it would not go on 2 pages - so I had to use the larger 4 page version. Unfortunately the template and my word processor did not get along at all well - so I rewrote it - with the same things on each page and in the same sequence (though it doesn't look like an EBU card). So I wonder if WBF cards are really that much of a problem if one actually wants to read one (uncommon in practice!)

Nick

[gnasher]

I nearly always asked for a convention card when I was declaring. Against opponents who have just played ten sessions of bridge and aren't speaking their native language, you may not always give a complete and correct explanation. For example, on at least two occasions someone volunteered a summary of their carding without mentioning that they played Smith.

The request for a card occasionally provoked surprise or even irritation, but there were also a few people who were pleased that their effort in filling in the card wasn't completely wasted.

A few pairs had no convention card between the partnership, which I think is unacceptable in a World Championship. I realise that for non-English speakers it might be hard to fill in the entire card, but supplying the leads, signals and opening bids can't really be that hard. If nothing else, they could have filled it in in their own language, which would have been better than nothing.

I called the director about this once, when we met a pair who had no convention card, spoke little English, and when asked about their leads said only "pair impair". (Does that mean 3rd and low?)

The director asked them what they were playing. They said "Standard", and he gave them two "Standard" convention cards. They were from Tunisia, where, I believe, it's standard to play that 1♦ promises four cards and 1♣ is 2+. Hence the consequence of my director call was probably that they were now carrying around convention cards that didn't correspond to their actual methods. Oh well.

[Trinidad]

Gerben42, on 2010-October-18, 04:14, said:

In the German top leagues, you are supposed to fill out a German big convention card at the same format as the WBF one. So for a world championship, you just need to translate it.

Unfortunately, this means that many pairs who have played internationally just bring their English card with them. I don't care, but I know some whose English is less than perfect and this might cause a problem.

I have a WBF card in Dutch and English. The cards are stapled at the corner and the whole "booklet" is put in a plastic pocket. In this way, the front (p1) and back side (p4) are in Dutch whereas the middle pages are in English.

When we meet foreign players, we take the card out of the plastic pocket and "turn the page" in such a way that then the English CC is shown.

Rik

[Gerardo]

gnasher, on 2010-October-18, 12:14, said:

I called the director about this once, when we met a pair who had no convention card, spoke little English, and when asked about their leads said only "pair impair". (Does that mean 3rd and low?)

It means "odd even". Probably they didn't understand the question.

[Free]

Gerardo, on 2010-October-21, 03:41, said:

It means "odd even". Probably they didn't understand the question.

The translation is actually "even odd", and it's not what it means...

[gnasher]

"Pair impair" as a signalling method means "High = even, low = odd", doesn't it? If you use the same phrase to describe your leads, it ought to mean that you lead high from an even number of cards and your lowest from an odd number.

I don't usually rely on appeals to authority, but FWIW this interpretation appears to be supported by someone with a famous surname:

http://ghbridge.free...rticles/C23.htm

[Gerardo]

Free, on 2010-October-21, 03:59, said:

The translation is actually "even odd", and it's not what it means...

That's literal.

But the method is called:
Spanish: "par/impar"
French: "pair/impair"
Italian: "pari/dispari"
English: "odd/even"

In Romance language is probably to avoid cacophony, don't know why English uses that order.

[gnasher]

Gerardo, on 2010-October-21, 05:27, said:

Spanish: "par/impar"
French: "pair/impair"
Italian: "pari/dispari"

I'm confused now. Do these mean "High = even, low = odd", or something else?

Quote

English: "odd/even"

This usually means "Odd = encouraging, low = discouraging"

[Gerardo]

Gerardo, on 2010-October-21, 05:27, said:

That's literal.

But the method is called:
Spanish: "par/impar"
French: "pair/impair"
Italian: "pari/dispari"

gnasher, on 2010-October-21, 06:01, said:

I'm confused now. Do these mean "High = even, low = odd", or something else?

English: "odd/even"

In Romance language is probably to avoid cacophony, don't know why English uses that order.

gnasher, on 2010-October-21, 06:01, said:

This usually means "Odd = encouraging, low = discouraging"

They are all translations of the same thing, what you said above.

I think they misunderstood your question, and did not answer about leads.

On the assumption an "odd/even" answer applied to leads would have been more elaborated.

[Free]

Here in Belgium many french speaking pairs play "pair/impair" leads which seems to be the same as 3rd/5th. Odd/Even discards are explained as Italian...

[NickRW]

I've come across "odd/even" in England to actually means Dodds discards a lot - as opposed to what I think it really means - i.e "Roman".