[raist]

QTxx Axxx xx xxx


partner opens 1S, you raise to 2S, LHO calls 3D, partner doubles, showing good hand. now it comes back to you.

what do you bid and how clear is it? does the vul affect your decision?

bonus qn: would you have made a bergen raise originally with that? why or why not?

EDIT:
additional info as requested

1. we don't play constructive raises, so 2S can be a crummy 5 to a lousy 10
2. 3H would have been game try with H values
3. double is just showing general good hand, also sort of a game try

[mr1303]

Can I bid 3♥ to sit on the fence?

[hanp]

I would never bid 3S with this.

[pooltuna]

hanp, on Sep 26 2010, 11:43 AM, said:

I would never bid 3S with this.

why not don't I have the offensive version of my previous constructive raise. It appears to me the other option was I could pass 3♦X

[bid_em_up]

raist, on Sep 26 2010, 12:20 PM, said:

bonus qn: would you have made a bergen raise originally with that? why or why not?

no.

because I don't play bergen raises.

[aguahombre]

raist, on Sep 26 2010, 10:20 AM, said:

QTxx Axxx xx xxx


partner doubles, showing good hand. now it comes back to you.

Certainly double of 3♦ shows a good hand. But in order to choose what to do about that, I would need to know what 3♥ would have meant, instead of double.

Possibilities:
Double=undisclosed good hand, 3♥ natural.
Double=willing to defend, 3H not willing to defend.
Double=penalty request, 3H=all game tries.

What responder now does with that information would depend on the agreement.

[neilkaz]

I punt it back to partner with 3♥ but I don't often play this method and prefer opener's rebid to be.. Double=penalty request, 3H=all game tries

[whereagles]

I'll bid game. Got extra trumps and what rates to be a useful doubleton.

I've been in situations like these before and nowadays I find 3♠ here is a nice way to talk yourself OUT of a cold game.

[raist]

aguahombre, on Sep 26 2010, 12:35 PM, said:

raist, on Sep 26 2010, 10:20 AM, said:

QTxx  Axxx  xx  xxx 


partner doubles, showing good hand. now it comes back to you.

Certainly double of 3♦ shows a good hand. But in order to choose what to do about that, I would need to know what 3♥ would have meant, instead of double.

Possibilities:
Double=undisclosed good hand, 3♥ natural.
Double=willing to defend, 3H not willing to defend.
Double=penalty request, 3H=all game tries.

What responder now does with that information would depend on the agreement.

i have put the information in the edited first post now

3H would be game try with H values (natural-ish)

double is undisclosed good hand, sort of like a random game try (if hand is defensive you can pass for penalty)

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

Other, 3H - which should be a counter game try.
The 3D improved your hand, since it got unlikely, that p will have
lots of diamonds values.
But some play, that the X showes diamond values, and 3H instead
of X a more shapely invite without interest in going for blood.
If you have this agreement, than the above argument, that the 3D call
improved your hand, loses some weight.

If I played Bergen raises, I would have bid 3S, one would like to have more
shape, but QTxx in trumps, and the Ace should be enough, I have no real
experience with Bergen, so take this with a grain of salt.



With kind regards
Marlowe

[mcphee]

I have a bergen raise I make a bergen raise which would have not involved me in the second choice.

Partner invites me to bid game when I could have held 1 less trump and worse than the raise I have I can not possibly imagine not bidding game. I am not in the camp where you bid 3H passing the buck back, either I have it or I don't.

[pooltuna]

raist, on Sep 26 2010, 11:20 AM, said:

QTxx Axxx xx xxx


partner opens 1S, you raise to 2S, LHO calls 3D, partner doubles, showing good hand. now it comes back to you.

what do you bid and how clear is it? does the vul affect your decision?

bonus qn: would you have made a bergen raise originally with that? why or why not?

EDIT:
additional info as requested

1. we don't play constructive raises, so 2S can be a crummy 5 to a lousy 10
2. 3H would have been game try with H values
3. double is just showing general good hand, also sort of a game try

I have modified my view and think 3♥ is near auto if you play constructive raises. If you don't play constructive raises you probably should just bid game as 3♥might not be encouraging enough

[jdeegan]

3♠ Everything points to it.
1. minimum high cards
2. doubleton diamond - poor for defense and poor for playing in spades
3. four trumps with some texture
4. the ace is nice

[the hog]

4H now. Not 3H, which is just buck passing.

[skjaeran]

4♠. Kick in the game.

[jdonn]

The_Hog, on Oct 3 2010, 11:09 PM, said:

4H now. Not 3H, which is just buck passing.

4♥ meaning what? Or did you mean 4♠?

Obviously this is much too good to sign off, I would bid 4♠ but I suppose you can argue for 3♥.

[RJWP]

In your methods: 4♠

In my methods (dbl = penalty request and 3♥= all game tries) I find the problem harder. In teams i think i'll pass but not red against green. In pairs it's a coin flip between 3♥ and 4♠

[Cascade]

The_Hog, on Oct 4 2010, 05:09 PM, said:

4H now. Not 3H, which is just buck passing.

Might not partner think you have five hearts?

[Cascade]

I prefer the Bergen Raise on the previous round.

[bucky]

jdeegan, on Oct 3 2010, 10:46 PM, said:

3♠ Everything points to it. 
1. minimum high cards
2. doubleton diamond - poor for defense and poor for playing in spades
3. four trumps with some texture
4. the ace is nice

Wouldn't 3 and 4 point to bidding more than 3♠?