[pclayton]

You pick up as dealer:

---

1♣ opener shows 16 + unbalanced / 17 + balanced.

This is a 10-13 NT situation, so thats out. 1x-1y-1N shows 14-16.

You open 1♥, pard answers 1♠. Over to you.

[inquiry]

Ok, so you are playing a forcing club system, so your hand is near maximum for the 1♥ bid. On value, your 1NT rebid here showing 14-16 is just right, as you have 15 and balanced with five hearts.

However, you have two honors in spades third, and a small doubleton and all prime values, in a suit oriented hand. So let's eliminate bad bids...

2H is out, that is just crazy
2S is out, yes out, as partner will never play us to be this good
2NT is out and sounds like a system flaw, as 1NT seems to show the same

That leaves
3S, right on value, short by one trump
1NT, right on value, too long in spades by one trump
2C, "science, science"

So the first question, in your system is 2C forcing? If it not, (I suspect it is not), then I would vote for 3♠. If 2♣ here is forcing, then I would bid 2♣ followed by cheapest spade raise.

Ben

[Free]

1NT. Doesn't lie about your strength and distribution... What's the problem?

Because I'm max, I don't like bidding 2♠.

[flytoox]

When in doubt, raise. Why 2s has to be min?

Hongjun

[jtfanclub]

It's a 2NT bid. In fact, 2NT should show exactly this hand- maximum, three spades.

What other possible use is there for 2NT in this auction? If you had a maximum without three spades, what would prevent you from bidding 1NT?

[BridgeBuff]

One of the benefits of playing Flannery (some might say the biggest) is that you normally play 1♥ - 1♠ to show five. Opener won't have four or he would have Flanneried. If opener was too strong to Flannery he will reverse.

So Flannery bidders bid 2♠ with that hand. It's near the top of the range, but then something has to be.

[paulhar]

BridgeBuff, on Aug 31 2004, 04:53 PM, said:

So Flannery bidders bid 2♠ with that hand. It's near the top of the range, but then something has to be.

Yeah, so near the top of the range that I would bid 3S if pard showed 5 with 1S - it's a 6 loser hand...

[luke warm]

given the system shown, i'd bid 1nt... i'm with free on this one, 1nt shows exactly what i have... a balanced 14-16... if pard bids 2C (2 way ckback), i bid 2S (in case he was gonna drop me in diamonds), which should show this hand

[pclayton]

jtfanclub, on Aug 31 2004, 12:33 PM, said:

It's a 2NT bid. In fact, 2NT should show exactly this hand- maximum, three spades.

What other possible use is there for 2NT in this auction? If you had a maximum without three spades, what would prevent you from bidding 1NT?

We actually have juggled the 2N call around a lot.

First it was a void splinter. Neat - but the frequency is nil.
Second it was a solid 6 bagger in diamonds. Again - not a lot of use.
Lately, its a balanced 4 card raise with 15-16.

[BridgeBuff]

Quote

Yeah, so near the top of the range that I would bid 3S if pard showed 5 with 1S - it's a 6 loser hand...

You are actually saying the hand is near the bottom of the next range ...

[the hog]

jtfanclub, on Sep 1 2004, 06:33 AM, said:

It's a 2NT bid.  In fact, 2NT should show exactly this hand- maximum, three spades.

What other possible use is there for 2NT in this auction?  If you had a maximum without three spades, what would prevent you from bidding 1NT?

Play 2NT the Polish club style 15-17, good 6 card suit, denies 3 in partner's suit.
Thus 1H 1S 3H would show the same range with a good 6 carder & 3 in partner's suit.

Anyway here bids should conform to system style
Playing PC with current pd I would have opened 1N.
This was not possible, so now my rebid should show the 14-16 range NT.
I see nothing wrong with a 1NT bid. Contrary to Jimmy, if pd bids 2C 2 way checkback, I do the right thing and bid 2D
(After all pd could have xxxx x AJTxxx xx or similar)

Playing Acol or similar, I bid 2S

Ron

[Gerben47]

1NT

Why lie when you can tell the truth? You have 14 - 16 balanced. If partner has 5 spades he can rebid them (good to know partner is balanced!) or ask with NMF or whatever you play here.

Raise with 3 cards and an UNBALANCED hand. 5332 doesn't look very unbalanced to me... Besides, I think if you play Precision the 2NT rebid should be 6♥ + 3♠ and maximum.

[Free]

Weird, that's already 2 guys who play 2NT as 6+♥ and 3♠, but I usually play it like Ron - which is more logical imo:

2NT = 6+♥ & 0-2 ♠ -> no immediate fit in a Major suit, so passable
3♥ = 6+♥ & 3 ♠ -> most of the time a fit, so 3-level is acceptable
both are maximum ofcourse

[Gerben47]

Yes that's even better. I've seen both versions and never thought much about which is better
I've corrected it in my 2-way pass system as well.

[luke warm]

The_Hog, on Sep 1 2004, 03:43 AM, said:

I see nothing wrong with a 1NT bid. Contrary to Jimmy, if pd bids 2C 2 way checkback, I do the right thing and bid 2D
(After all pd could have xxxx x AJTxxx xx or similar)

Playing Acol or similar, I bid 2S

Ron

i think you're right, ron.. bidding 2D (like you're supposed to do) is the right thing... i stand corrected

[whereagles]

One of the classic meanings of 2NT rebids on precision was the "big H" hand:

1M 1NT
2NT

meaning max hand (14-15), good 6-card major and top tricks outside.

You can extend the concept to 1H-1S-2NT, though you have to decide whether or not to worry about a 3-card spade on the side. (I don't worry, 'cos a good 6-card suit usually plays well opposite a singleton.)

You can use the "big H" concept after 1D openings as well, but here a 3-card major on the side is much more important, so..

1D 1M
2NT = big H in diamonds, no 3-card on pard's major

1D 1M
3D = big H, but with 3-card on pard's major

I think this is how Rigal puts it in his book.

[pclayton]

Thanks all for the responses.

At the table I bid 2♣, which I think has a lot going for it. Like Al Roth use to say, "if I can get past this bid, I'll be fine".

Well, pard passed 2♣ . But RHO helped me out with a 2♦ balance, so I was able to bid the hand out. Pard took a preference to 3♣ on: Axxx, xx, xx, AJxxx.

Every call is flawed, certainly.

1N - points are sharp, we have decent support for pard and an outside xx.
2♠ - I could be 4-5 points lighter for this call.
3♠ - overbid.
2N - Huh? Even if meant as a balanced 14-15, I don't think its a sensible use of the call.

Leaving 2♣. The only 'flaw' is the lack of the 4th club - everything else is dead on. While its not forcing, per se, partner won't pass it very often, either. Its a similar auction to 1 major - 1N forcing - 2♣. If we have game anywhere, we aren't going to play 2♣. If pard makes another move, we will be very well placed.

If the scoring was MPs - (it was IMPs), then I don't like 2♣ nearly as much, and would vote for the 2♠ underbid. 1N is my 3rd choice.

I think if you gave a hand like that to a lot of good 2/1 players, that don't like opening hands like this 1N, you'd get a lot of votes for 2♣. I was more curious on how a strong club partnership should treat a similar sequence.

[skorchev]

Hum, 1NT or 2♠, but I like the italian scores so 2♠ .

If my partner contunue with 2NT I will bid 3♣ (If 2NT and 3♣ are standard bids - 2NT - invitational, 3♣ - values).

If my partner continue with 3♣ or 3♠ I will go to 4♠.

And if my partner bid 3♦ I will close to 3NT.

Stefan

[inquiry]

pclayton, on Sep 2 2004, 02:16 PM, said:

If the scoring was MPs - (it was IMPs), then I don't like 2♣ nearly as much, and would vote for the 2♠ underbid.

Yes, at MP, bid 2♠... it is a different game, and I think it was Barry Crane who said "the three level is dangerous"

[mikestar]

In my regular Precision partnership, the 2S bid was limited to 11-13 with four card support, but could be 14-16 with three card support. (14-16 and 4 card support bid 3S.) With this agreement partner will allow for us possibly being this stong but will only try for game on distributional fit if he has five trumps.