[P_Marlowe]

1axbycz1, on Sep 8 2010, 09:37 PM, said:

Alright. Got your point. So after 1c I need to be agressive with my pre-empts right? But I suppose I still need to stay quiet with balanced hands of minimal strength?

Is pre-empting still good when my side is vulnerable and the opps are not?

Then what about 1h-p-4h for example? Is responder showing a strong hand or pre-emptive?

Hi,

#1 if you are bal. with min. strength, would you always go in, if the opponents
play standard?
#2 you also need to take the vulnerability into account, if you go in, if the
opponents play standard.
#3 No, in this case 4H is a two-way bid, given the limited nature of the 1H bid,
4H can be the value bid, or not.
If you have a clear bid, than make it, otherwise stay out.
Again, if you have a hand, that would ask you to go in, if opponents play
standard, than chances are high, that it is also ok to go in, if they happen
to play precision.
Keeping in mind, that you tiden the req. a little, i.e. if it is borderline against
standard, it is most likely not a good idea to get in against precision.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[1axbycz1]

So my overcalls are the same as I would over standard right?
So I suppose over 1c...
1d/1h/1s to show 5-card suit, 10+
2-level shows the strength of a weak 2
Would that work? And higher-level bids are strictly for pre-empt, probably rule of 2 and 3.

What about NT bids?

[Flameous]

I play that 1 lvl bids and X are strictly for lead (Could be AKx for example)
Two level is like nm Dont; 1NT is long minor or majors, 2C/D show that suit and higher.

It might also be good idea to use all 1 and two suit bids to show specific two-suiters. That way your partner is always able to raise to 3lvl when appropriate which puts maximum pressure on opponents. (They lose cuebid below 3NT)

Whatever you choose, you always lose some and gain some. I like to bid on 2lvl as often as possible cause it shuts out relays, even if partner can't raise it that often.

[Oof Arted]

We play our 1♦ opener as denying 5M but also might be a VOID holding 5 rubish ♣44M of course could be a genuine ♦ suit

[Free]

I like to bid 1♠ showing 0-3♠s. This comes up frequently, it's not a random bid, and it ruins many relay systems.

Currently I'm experimenting with canapé overcalls. So far so good, and it's fun

[W Kovacs]

The only systematic defenses to our 1C opener that my partner have ever seen used are Mathe:

1♣-(x) or 1♣-(P)-1♦-(x) = 4-4 Majors
1♣-1NT or 1♣-(P)-1♦-(1NT) = 4-4 minors
All other overcalls are single suited.

And we've seen CRASH (Color Rank and SHape):

1♣-(x) or 1♣-(P)-1♦-(x) = Reds or Blacks
1♣-(1♦) = Majors or Minors
1♣-1NT or 1♣-(P)-1♦-(1NT) = Pointed (♦♠) or Rounded (♣♥)
1♥, 1♠, 2♣, 2♦ are natural single suited.
Cheapest NT by advancer asks overcaller to identify his cheapest suit, for a pass or correct scenario.

[akhare]

Free, on Sep 9 2010, 09:24 AM, said:

I like to bid 1♠ showing 0-3♠s. This comes up frequently, it's not a random bid, and it ruins many relay systems.

Currently I'm experimenting with canapé overcalls. So far so good, and it's fun

Actually, it's possible to play relays through 1♠ interference .

In a sense, it's similar to playing relays over 1♣ - 1♥ (any semi-positive) - 1♠ (GF relay).

(1N)+ of course ruins the party ....

[Zelandakh]

1axbycz1, on Sep 9 2010, 10:09 AM, said:

So my overcalls are the same as I would over standard right?
So I suppose over 1c...
1d/1h/1s to show 5-card suit, 10+
2-level shows the strength of a weak 2
Would that work? And higher-level bids are strictly for pre-empt, probably rule of 2 and 3.

What about NT bids?

Guys, the OP is B/I - keep it simple! Forget canape, semi-random 1S and all that jazz.

Overcalls of their natural openings should be similar to standard, yes. Have an agreement about what to use as your cue bid if their 1D opening is nebulous (or worse 0+) and also understand how you can get your diamonds into the auction.

Over their 1C 10+ is too restrictive as a range. You are looking to bid 1D/H/S with something like 5-12 and a 5 card suit or even a very good 4 card suit. Your jump overcalls do not show less strength but rather more distribution - a 6 card suit or a good 5-card suit. The partner of the overcaller should raise to the limit at the first opportunity knowing the approximate length opposite. With stronger hands you pass instead of overcalling and bid at the second opportunity. Most balanced hands will pass regardless of strength.

For NT bids over 1C I suggest 1NT = minors because it is simple. You can use 2NT however you wish but it should show nice shape in 2 suits (major + minor is a reasonable option). NT bids over their natural openings should follow the same pattern as you use against standard. Higher level bids are pre-empts, not necessarily strictly Rule of 2 and 3 especially at favourable (more like Rule of 4!) but do not go crazy either, especially at red.

There are plenty of other defences to a strong 1C around. Some are rather complex. I would advise that you play for a few months with (mostly) natural methods such as these until you have a reasonable feel for what is working and what isn't, what you like and do not like. Only then is it worth running through the more common methods (Truscott, Crash, etc) to see if you think any will work better for you.

[Free]

akhare, on Sep 9 2010, 04:29 PM, said:

Free, on Sep 9 2010, 09:24 AM, said:

I like to bid 1♠ showing 0-3♠s.  This comes up frequently, it's not a random bid, and it ruins many relay systems.

Currently I'm experimenting with canapé overcalls. So far so good, and it's fun 

Actually, it's possible to play relays through 1♠ interference .

In a sense, it's similar to playing relays over 1♣ - 1♥ (any semi-positive) - 1♠ (GF relay).

(1N)+ of course ruins the party ....

Yes, but the relays are already 2 steps up, it makes the auction more difficult if they don't play symmetric, they have less space, no cuebids if they start bidding natural,... Showing exact shape might get too high for some relay schemes. And partner can still bid something as well

It sometimes creates funny auctions when my partner passes.

[1axbycz1]

I'm fine with Truscott. It's a rather simple method to show 2-suiters, and partner can raise immediately.

[Acolade]

The original versions of Precision were quite natural. People quote the 1C bid with it's 1D negative reply, but isn't it akin to other so-called natural systems opening 2C with a 2D negative reply ?

Personally I find no pressing need to open 1D with fewer than 4. It is said that you might find yourself opening 1NT on unsuitable hands, but Acol players do so equally as often.

I therefore do not regard basic Precision as being non-natural. Most bids means exactly what they say.

For people wishing to give the system a try I suggest you get hold of "Precision Bidding and Precision Play" by T. Reese.

[blackshoe]

There is a book called, I think, Natural Precision, by a guy named Brown. It's a very simple version of the system.