[gwnn]

4♥ in the first auction shows 5+ hearts and a strong hand (non forcing).

4♥ in the second auction does not show or deny anything in particular, it is just a strong strong hand, game forcing.

3♥-x-p-4♣
p-4♠

shows 5+ spades and a strong hand (non forcing).

[jillybean]

Heck, I had that muddled up, thanks.

[bucky]

jillybean, on Sep 6 2010, 02:42 PM, said:

So is partner expected to correct to ♦'s holding 3244 after;
(3♠) X  (P) 4♣
(P)  4♥  ?

and

(3♥) X  (P) (4♣)
(P)  4♥    must be a cue in support of ♣, 4♠ would be a choice of ♠/♦ game?


I see the need to play ELC at this level, is it also expert standard to play ELC
at the 2 and 3 level?

3244 is not shapely enough to correct to diamonds. For example doubler could have 1633 in the first sequence (with rather weak hearts).

[jillybean]

bucky, on Sep 7 2010, 05:04 PM, said:

jillybean, on Sep 6 2010, 02:42 PM, said:

So is partner expected to correct to ♦'s holding 3244 after;
(3♠) X  (P) 4♣
(P)  4♥  ?

and

(3♥) X  (P) (4♣)
(P)  4♥    must be a cue in support of ♣, 4♠ would be a choice of ♠/♦ game?


I see the need to play ELC at this level, is it also expert standard to play ELC
at the 2 and 3 level?

3244 is not shapely enough to correct to diamonds. For example doubler could have 1633 in the first sequence (with rather weak hearts).

Why wouldn't you bid a direct 4♥ with weak 1633 ?

[bucky]

jillybean, on Sep 7 2010, 07:43 PM, said:

Why wouldn't you bid a direct 4♥ with weak 1633 ?

Because hearts may not be the right strain. Say I hold x, Axxxxx, AKJ, AQJ, why do I have to insist on hearts? If partner has stiff heart and 6-card minors, I want to be in 5m. More often though, the doubler will have 1543 or similar shape. The point is that, double-then-bid shows more flexibility in strain than direct suit bid.

[the hog]

aguahombre, on Sep 7 2010, 01:45 AM, said:

mohitz, on Sep 6 2010, 12:26 PM, said:

Non forcing but shows extras.

this seems contradictory. Having forced partner to do something intelligent at at least the 3NT level, I don't understand a non-forcing bid showing extras. But, just an observation.

Not everyone plays equal level conversion. Not playing this, this bid would certainly show extras.