[kenberg]

Yes, another bone of contention. Give opener 3=1=4=5, he bids 1♣ and gets a 1♠ response. With enough strength he bids 2♦, with less he bids 2♠. I would be most pleased to hear opinions about the dividing line.

[blackshoe]

I think a reverse should show 5 losers or better. This one has five and a half. OTOH, 2♠ should show 6-7(8) losers, so this hand is too strong, and I'd reverse. Good 16 or not, though, this is pretty close to a minimum reverse.

[kenberg]

Blackie, am I right that holding 3=1=4=5 shape with strength neither maximal nor minimal you will open 1♣ and either reverse or rase spades if you get a 1♠ response? My opening with such a shape is 1♣ since opening 1♦ and rebidding 2♣ over the (at the time of opening) expected 1♥ response is unattractive (to me). But after the uncontested 1♣-1♠, I assume the choices are 2♠ and 2♦, right?

And of course with 3=4=1=5 most of us have no choice but to start with 1♣ so after 1♠ it's either 2♠ or 2♥.

Easy choices are easy , always either having clearly enough strength for 2♥ or clearly a 2♠ raise. The Bridge Gods do not treat me so nicely, and the line between the two seems more like a broad region of ambiguity.


I reverse with Qxx/x/AKxx/AKxxx and I bid 2♠ if one of those kings is a jack. If it's a queen I prepare my mea culpa and make a choice. I am interested in what others do.

[blackshoe]

Context is important. If you change the auction, you change the value of your hand (not always, perhaps, but often enough). Change the hand, and you change the auction. I was addressing the hand and auction in question. And with that hand, I bid the same way as you. I note that if you change one of the kings to a jack, you add a loser. Changing it to a queen doesn't change the loser count.

[Lovera]

I have a question on this argoument for a point that seems to me has not been ever threat. Bidding : the opp dealer bids "pass(=p)"- i open with "1♣"- the other opp bids "1♦"- and my partner "1♥", "p". If on my turn now bids 2♦ than overcalling opp what is the meaning of it ? What hand should i have to bid so ?

[Zelandakh]

Traditionally it shows either a 2NT rebid without a diamond stopper or a very strong 1-suiter but there is enough space to include at least one additional hand type, such as a 4♥ rebid, if you want to do so.

[Lovera]

 Zelandakh, on 2015-August-27, 09:07, said:

Traditionally it shows either a 2NT rebid without a diamond stopper or a very strong 1-suiter but there is enough space to include at least one additional hand type, such as a 4♥ rebid, if you want to do so.

Hi, i need to know principally what shape you think i'd have because i want to verify a my idea to see If it is right. Should be clear that i have a strong hand and usually this type of overcalling means i have in diamond 0/1 loser. Can you tell me ?

[Zelandakh]

Yes a strong hand. Shape: balanced or one-suited. Does not promise 0-1 losers in the suit (♦xxx would be perfectly reasonable for example (♠AKx ♥AK ♦xxx ♣KQxxx, etc (adjust if that is a 2NT opener)).

[mikeh]

To me, after 1♣ (1♦) 1♥ (P) 2♦

shows:

1. hand worth 2N but with no diamond stopper
2. hand with a very good, long club suit, and wanting to ensure that our next bid in clubs is forcing while still below 3N
3. hand with a very good raise in hearts, game force, based on power. Use 4♥ as a game bid based on shape, rather than hcp.


None of these carry any inference at all about how many diamonds we hold.

Indeed, if we have the power hand in hearts, we will tend to hold some length in diamonds (2+) since with most hands with shortness we would splinter.

[Lovera]

I don't exclude shapes or meanings of bidding that you indicated (to verify how is good my idea and If it possibile to make) but a little help can be that it is on argoument. Than i have club suit and one card in diamond ( suit of opp). Actually i seem not to think at heart (suit of partner). Where i have points ? Can have any other thing to bid for showing a strong hand ? And what type and shape ?

[Lovera]

It is sure at this time that the hand is not balanced (i use overbidding opp suit having hands with analog type of distribution of direct overb.(=1♦-2♦)

[Lovera]

Well, let's look to get at point from the other side doesn't considering for the moment the 2♦ bidding on second round. The bidding than goes:( p )- 1♣ - (1♦) - 1♥, (p) - 2♠. Now is clear i am on reversed bidding but what hand can i have ? It is normal to think at anything of more usual and probable than a 4 - 5 or also a 4 - 6 spade-club reversed. But it is not so yet about shape.

[Lovera]

It is the last remaining the 5-1-1-6 and to bid so i must have almost 10 points in high cards giving information that the first suit is longer than the second one (i.e. ♠ AKxxx and ♣ AJxxxx). The point is that urge to give at partner the possibility to know i have five cards in spade for a raise with three cards. Because revers with bidding of this type are three (4-5, 4-6 and 5-6) if we can use eventually overbidding of suit of opp after rever meaning its is a max rev. instead inverting the process only for the 5-6 we can focus about shape making rever after overbidding (eventually can be used also for 5-0-2-6 overbidding the suit of opp with two cards reserving it to indicate this rare distribution). Such as if bidding continues so ..2♦-(p)-2♥-(p)-2♠ or 2♦-(3♦)-3♥-(p)-3♠ at partner has arrived the usefull information of five cards in spade (and than six in club).This is my idea to solve this (problematic) bidding because i have not seen/known to have been ever studyied before.
Obviously this is possible because opp intervention but lacking it problem seems to remain. How do you think about it ? It is possible to manage this gadget ? Bye.

[Lovera]

The lonely hand that i've found to understand the bidding problem (similar but stronger) is :S ♠ AK432 ♥ 8 ♦ AKJ874 ♣ A (not vul vs non vul) bidding : 2♣ - 3♣ - p - 5♣ what bidding S at second round ? Reese : it's early to X, 6♦ it is excessive , pass it is not to think risking to hear 5♥; Besse : 5 "karpics" (director come here); Rose: double Monday, Wednesday, Friday and 5♦ Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday (Sunday probably he get to rest and doesn't answer); Jais : double; Chiaradia and Romanet: 5♠; Genevieve Morenas : 6♦; Belladonna :6♣ (spectacolar cue bid). This hand is from World Championship in Buenos Aires and Le Dentu was in S against Leventritt and Schenken (E-O) and bided 6♣. Then Trezel in N bidded 6♠ (with much fear of Le Dentu). Quote : 5♦=100 pass=80 X or 5♠=70 6♦=60 6♣=? Maxima to remember: Don't force your talent when risk can be much big.(From "Bridge a la une" by Jose Le Dentu IL Fear pagg. 220-221).

[Lovera]

It is happened today in MSN club: i seat for the second time at table and see ♠ 92 ♥ AKJ10x ♦ - ♣ QJxxxx (!)(=strange but had i not told that this one is a rare hand ?) Naturally i open with 1 ♣ but bidding don't proceed. Why ? I was courious to see Bots what had bidded to experiment an eventually overbidding of the suit of opp.(En passant : the first time in the same club, open table :seat, when at this other table i see that i had already bidding (when it is not ) and again, after a pass, the bidding was not move. Then i was tried to change requiring an undo with same resulting but anything changed. Why ?)