[Phil]

Our club just bought the "Bridge Buddy" convention cards. They are absolutely hideous and have tick marks for such treatments as:

- 'Modified Precision'
- BROMAD
- Somthing called JacMan (I think, W'everTF that is)

- and a few others, however, there is a spot for

"Kantar 3N", which I'm pretty sure is NAMYATS 3N

So the next time I play in a NABC, I'll show the head director the cc and see, "there it is', better let me play it now

[blackshoe]

Never heard of JacMan, but Kantar 3NT is most definitely not the same as Namyats 3NT — and Namyats is not an acronym.

Namyats 3NT shows a 4 level preempt in either minor. Kantar 3NT shows a solid major suit (either major).

[Siegmund]

JacMan is in Kearse's book, but I've never met a real live person who played it. Two-way Stayman at the 2-level plus 4-way transfers at the 3-level. At least it plays 2-way Stayman the right way round (2C bust or GF, 2D invitational) instead of the usual way.

Why would a director have given you any trouble about either Namyats 3NT or Kantar 3NT, Phil? They are both GCC legal and have been forever.

[Phil]

Siegmund, on Aug 28 2010, 09:26 PM, said:

JacMan is in Kearse's book, but I've never met a real live person who played it.  Two-way Stayman at the 2-level plus 4-way transfers at the 3-level. At least it plays 2-way Stayman the right way round (2C bust or GF, 2D invitational) instead of the usual way.

Why would a director have given you any trouble about either Namyats 3NT or Kantar 3NT, Phil? They are both GCC legal and have been forever.

Namyats 3N isn't allowed, but I think you might have it confused with the 'broken minor' version.

The method I'm referring to uses a 3N opening as a 'good' 4M opening (like 4[c] and 4♦) in standard Namyats. It isn't allowed because:

- 3N isn't a known suit
- 3N isn't a solid suit

[aguahombre]

The broken minor version isn't a known suit or a solid suit, either: hence "broken". I am pretty sure it is allowed.

[Siegmund]

Ah. I foolishly assumed that "Namyats 3NT" meant "the 3NT bid that is part of Namyats" - i.e. the broken-minor 3NT that accompanies the 4m=strong M version.

I've not heard 3NT=good-but-not-solid major referred to by a name of its own (and that one IS still illegal, while the broken minor bid and solid major bid are legal.)

[Mbodell]

Phil, on Aug 29 2010, 09:13 AM, said:

Siegmund, on Aug 28 2010, 09:26 PM, said:

JacMan is in Kearse's book, but I've never met a real live person who played it.  Two-way Stayman at the 2-level plus 4-way transfers at the 3-level. At least it plays 2-way Stayman the right way round (2C bust or GF, 2D invitational) instead of the usual way.

Why would a director have given you any trouble about either Namyats 3NT or Kantar 3NT, Phil? They are both GCC legal and have been forever.

Namyats 3N isn't allowed, but I think you might have it confused with the 'broken minor' version.

The method I'm referring to uses a 3N opening as a 'good' 4M opening (like 4[c] and 4♦) in standard Namyats. It isn't allowed because:

- 3N isn't a known suit
- 3N isn't a solid suit

What's allowed is different than what you say (I.e., you can play it an unknown minor suit that is not solid), but it is true that a non-solid major hand isn't allowed.

When I look at the GCC I see a number 8 that says:

Allowed 8:

OPENING THREE NOTRUMP BID indicating one of

a) a solid suit or

a minor one-suiter.

It seems to me that a minor one suiter would match 8b and a good 4M preempt would have to be a solid suit before it were allowed.

[Phil]

Sorry, I should have added:

"3N isn't a minor suit" to the list.

[aguahombre]

In that case #8 seems a bit arbitrary. Were they targeting somebody specific when they decided that a Major had to be solid?

[Vampyr]

aguahombre, on Aug 29 2010, 08:05 PM, said:

In that case #8 seems a bit arbitrary.  Were they targeting somebody specific when they decided that a Major had to be solid?

Yes, this struck me as pretty strange, too.

My regular partner and I play 3NT to show a major suit that may or may not be solid. I don't know either if this convention has a proper name; we call it "South African Texas in a major" on our convention card.

[mycroft]

Well, the GCC started as "These conventions, but we don't want to regulate conventions, so we'll word the conventions in generic terms", and it's outgrown from there. The historical underpinnings still are visible if you know to look.

So the fact that 3NT can be broken minor (when playing Namyats) or solid suit (gambling or whatever was legal in 1960), but not broken 4-level preempt, or even broken major, doesn't surprise me at all. Make a request to put it on; it *might* fly.