[inquiry]

Scoring: IMP

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This hand might look familiar. But that is ok. The question is after your partner opens a diamond and you ahve a monster, and assuming you are not playing 2S as strong jump shift, how do you conntiue over partners 2♦ rebod?

Clearly all you need to know is ACES... IF partner has two you want to be in grand slam, proably in NT if matchpoints. The first question becomes is a jump to 4NT here blackwood or quantitative. If it is blackwood, that is what you should do. Mo problem.

Now, for those of you who think an immediate 4NT is NOT blackwood (there must be a few of you), how would you design the auction so that you could eventually use blackwood?

Ben

[whereagles]

I don't understand. Are you asking if

1D 1S
2D 4NT

is blackwood? I would say so, though one might imagine opener to reason "pard didn't bid a forcing 4D raise, so 4NT must be quantitative!"

[inquiry]

whereagles, on Aug 6 2004, 03:40 PM, said:

I don't understand. Are you asking if

1D 1S
2D 4NT

is blackwood? I would say so, though one might imagine opener to reason "pard didn't bid a forcing 4D raise, so 4NT must be quantitative!"

Yes, in a nutshell that is the question. Is 4NT here over 2D KeyCard blackwood agreeing diamonds? Is it normal Blackwood? Or is it quantitative, and if it is quantatative clearly you don't want to use it, so what would you do in that case)..

I suspect most will just bid 4NT... as blackwood. I wonder how many play it as something other than blackwood.

Ben

[whereagles]

Well, some people play that if there's no suit agreed, 4NT is RKCB over the last bid suit. Though, it is true this is the sort of thing you usually don't discuss with pard

[luke warm]

to me, 4D is rkc for diamonds, always... i don't know what 4nt would be, unless it's quantitative... north has several forcing bids available, all short of 4nt, and all he really wants to know about is aces... i'd not bid 4nt even if it was blackwood, simply because i'd be afraid of a misunderstanding

[inquiry]

luke warm, on Aug 6 2004, 05:10 PM, said:

to me, 4D is rkc for diamonds, always... i don't know what 4nt would be, unless it's quantitative... north has several forcing bids available, all short of 4nt, and all he really wants to know about is aces... i'd not bid 4nt even if it was blackwood, simply because i'd be afraid of a misunderstanding

Jimmy is on the right triack... when he is worried about "confusion" over what 4NT bid means. For the very reason that whereagles suggested when he said, "Though, it is true this is the sort of thing you usually don't discuss with pard."

This is the meaning of the title of this quiz..."Headache for you and me if no agreement"

If you have an agreement, even a simple one like a jump to 4NT is always blackwood, and if no expressed fit has been found, the last bid suit is agreed.. of if no expressed fit has been found it is normal blackwood rather than keycard blackwood. The purpose was to give you something to think about if you are concerned, as jimmy was, aobut a bidding misunderstanding if you bid 4NT.

Ben

[luke warm]

i don't know if i ever actually answered the question... on

1d : 1s
2d : 4d is my bid (rkc)

and you're right ben, 4nt (even if i *meant* it as blackwood) is sufficiently ambiguous as to not even enter my considerations.. now if the shoe was on the other foot, i think i'd respond to partner's 4nt as if it was blackwood... i'd rather err on that side, i think

[1eyedjack]

I play 4D as minorwood here (or 4H as redwood).

With a quant hand I take it slowly with a new suit, then 4N if no fit.

[sceptic]

what is rewood and minorwood?

[Cascade]

I voted for 4♦ "minorwood" but I actually play 4♦ as kickback.

Changing to kickback was one of the best things that we ever did for our slam bidding.

The advantage of kickback is that all of the responses are below five of your suit. Therefore you can always find out about the trump queen below your suit at the five-level.

The disadvantage is that sometimes the kickback suit is one that our side has bid naturally. You can almost always work around this with special rules. I cannot remember the last time that we actually had a problem with an ambiguous suit.

[BrianEDuran]

Hi

4D - RCK in Diamonds
4NT - RCK in Spades
On this auction I would have to do through my artificial bid (3C for me) to make a quanitative bid.

As for Inquiry's situation, sounds like you are not playing minorwood, most people in my area would assume 4NT is always RCK for the last bid suit, discussed or undisscussed. So that would be my assumption too. I would still bid 3C in hopes my partner bid 3nt and then raise to 4NT to make a Quanitiative raise and I think lots of others would find that approach.

Final partnership harmony strongly implies treating it as RCK. I'm sure everyone would understand partner responding as RCK then saying it was quanitative and passing, when you are trying to decide between six and seven.

Brian