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this might be a stoopidquestion I'm guessing it's probably gonna be

#1 User is offline   gwnn 

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Posted 2010-August-07, 22:24

2♦-(2♥)-2♠

forcing or non-forcing?

edit for pooltuna's help:

2♦ is a weak two in diamonds
... and I can prove it with my usual, flawless logic.
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#2 User is offline   pooltuna 

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Posted 2010-August-07, 22:47

So we get a clue as to what 2♦ means?
"Tell me of your home world, Usul"
the Freman, Chani from the move "Dune"

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#3 User is offline   gwnn 

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Posted 2010-August-07, 22:52

no. it's a big fat guess.
... and I can prove it with my usual, flawless logic.
      George Carlin
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#4 User is offline   pooltuna 

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Posted 2010-August-07, 22:58

gwnn, on Aug 7 2010, 11:52 PM, said:

no. it's a big fat guess.

oh! Then 2♠ is a GSF
"Tell me of your home world, Usul"
the Freman, Chani from the move "Dune"

"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it."

George Bernard Shaw
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#5 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2010-August-08, 01:52

Non-forcing probably most useful but would take it is forcing with an unknown p.
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#6 User is offline   kenrexford 

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Posted 2010-August-08, 06:29

helene_t, on Aug 8 2010, 02:52 AM, said:

Non-forcing probably most useful but would take it is forcing with an unknown p.

In theory that might be right, but who passes with 21+ HCP and 5+ diamonds???
"Gibberish in, gibberish out. A trial judge, three sets of lawyers, and now three appellate judges cannot agree on what this law means. And we ask police officers, prosecutors, defense lawyers, and citizens to enforce or abide by it? The legislature continues to write unreadable statutes. Gibberish should not be enforced as law."

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#7 User is offline   gwnn 

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Posted 2010-August-08, 06:35

surely you mean 21+ and 4+ spades Ken? :)
... and I can prove it with my usual, flawless logic.
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#8 User is online   kenberg 

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Posted 2010-August-08, 07:28

In partnerships where I have discussed it, I usually play:
2D-(pass)-2S is forcing
2D-(2H)-2S is non-forcing, constructive
2D-(X)-2S is non-forcing, constructive
2D-(2H)-X is natural.

I am not prepared to defend this arrangement except to say that it seems to work adequately most of the time. I can't say that the last auction happens much, so maybe some other meaning would be more useful. Some sort of spade length and either diamond tolerance or a huge hand maybe.
Ken
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#9 User is offline   pooltuna 

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Posted 2010-August-08, 08:38

kenberg, on Aug 8 2010, 08:28 AM, said:

In partnerships where I have discussed it, I usually play:
2D-(pass)-2S is forcing
2D-(2H)-2S is non-forcing, constructive
2D-(X)-2S is non-forcing, constructive
2D-(2H)-X is natural.

I am not prepared to defend this arrangement except to say that it seems to work adequately most of the time. I can't say that the last auction happens much, so maybe some other meaning would be more useful. Some sort of spade length and either diamond tolerance or a huge hand maybe.

How do you feel about your call when you find out partner was playing multi?
"Tell me of your home world, Usul"
the Freman, Chani from the move "Dune"

"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it."

George Bernard Shaw
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#10 User is offline   gwnn 

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Posted 2010-August-08, 09:18

ok. 2♦ is not multi. if it was multi I'd have told you!

2♦ is a weak two in diamonds.
... and I can prove it with my usual, flawless logic.
      George Carlin
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#11 User is offline   Phil 

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Posted 2010-August-08, 10:00

Forcing, only because it may be support (or tolerance) and lead director. Or not.
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#12 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2010-August-08, 10:09

If an opponent was the 2S bidder, I would assume it was NF, natural and that 2NT, instead, would have created an articial force.

Can honestly say I have never had this situation with any partner. Someday, I intend to try 2D as a wk two. Always open to new ideas ;)
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#13 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2010-August-08, 10:11

Phil, on Aug 8 2010, 10:00 AM, said:

Forcing, only because it may be support (or tolerance) and lead director. Or not.

Is it likely that the 2D opener will be on lead?
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#14 User is offline   Phil 

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Posted 2010-August-08, 10:25

aguahombre, on Aug 8 2010, 11:11 AM, said:

Phil, on Aug 8 2010, 10:00 AM, said:

Forcing, only because it may be support (or tolerance) and lead director. Or not.

Is it likely that the 2D opener will be on lead?

When I've tried it (twice in the last two years), 4th chair bid 3N, which seems like a likely parlay. Even then, partner's knowledge of our spade strength can prove useful on defense when we are on lead.

This may be sub-optimal, I don't know, but we haven't been burned by playing this method.
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#15 User is offline   kenrexford 

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Posted 2010-August-08, 11:23

gwnn, on Aug 8 2010, 07:35 AM, said:

surely you mean 21+ and 4+ spades Ken? :P

I did think that would be standard by now, but then the answer to the question would be obvious. LOL
"Gibberish in, gibberish out. A trial judge, three sets of lawyers, and now three appellate judges cannot agree on what this law means. And we ask police officers, prosecutors, defense lawyers, and citizens to enforce or abide by it? The legislature continues to write unreadable statutes. Gibberish should not be enforced as law."

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