[AlanM34]

---

[inquiry]

Welcome to the BBO forum. I took the liberty to reformat your question in the typical style. After a few other responses, i will suggest the auction i like.. i am sure we all start 1♥-1♠, the tricky part begins with the 2/3♦ question for south.

Ben

[jtfanclub]

I am an Intermediate. Sorry if in this post I sound like an Authority- I assure you I'm not.

AlanM34, on Aug 5 2004, 09:32 PM, said:

Dealer: South Vul: None Scoring: Unknown

♠ AK9xx ♥ 987 ♦ Axxx ♣ x ♠   ♥ AQJT86 ♦ KQJT5 ♣ xx

1♣ 1♠
2♥ 4♣
4NT 5♥
6♥

I love Precision.

1♥ 1♠
2♦ 4♣
4NT 5♥
6♦ 6♥

Works fine in SA as well.

The key in both is the 4♣ being Splinter. If you don't have Splinter, you don't find slam.

[sceptic]

I actually have a question on bens answer, I thought of bidding 1Heart 1spade, then I thought, why bid spades, I am under the impression as you can support hearts why look for another fit before showing your heart fit?

[the hog]

" I am under the impression as you can support hearts why look for another fit before showing your heart fit? "

You have 3 small H and an excellent S suit. Why would you want to support H on this without showing S first? Showing S can in many cases help partner to evaluate any S cards. You clearly are going to be in game on this hand. It is best to describe what you have got rather than show support with 3 anaemic Hearts. How would you do it anyway? Jacoby shows 4, Stenberg shows 4 or 3 to 2 honors and a splinter always shows 4 card support.

Incidentally, 6D is a better contract than 6H. You Will take the H hook. It is possible to lose to a stiff K and get a D ruff and now you are 2 off. 6D just depends on the H hook, (unless the first H is ruffed and now you would be going off anyway - C and H to lose.) So definitely 6D at Imps and 6H at MPs.

1H 1S
2D 4C splinter

or
1H 1S
2D 4D
should both get you to 6D

Cheers
Ron

[Chamaco]

sceptic, on Aug 6 2004, 05:39 AM, said:

I actually have a question on bens answer, I thought of bidding 1Heart 1spade, then I thought, why bid spades, I am under the impression as you can support hearts why look for another fit before showing your heart fit?

Hi Wayne !! :-)

You are right in thinking that many modern standard american (and/or 2/1) books suggest to skip the spades and show support with a moderate hand.


That would be the case for example of:

♠ AK9xx
♥ 987
♦ xxxx
♣ x

This is the same hand as before with one less Ace.
In this case, supporting immediately has the advantage of giving at once immediate fit and limiting the hand, the most important priorities, rather than looking for a super accurate description of the hand.
This approach is useful in semi-preempting opps and in helping a strong partner to locate immediately the possibility of stretching to a game contract.
On the other hand, is some hands, it does not help him to evaluate/devaluate his hand, especially in close competitive sequences if opps compete in a minor.

But if responder is holding 3 card support and a limit raise hand or a GF hand, he can, and should, make another bid before showing support .
In fact, regardless whether you use Bergen raises or plain limit raises, the immediate invitational raise tends to sho 4+ trumps: if you have 3 trumps you make another bid then show your delayed raise.

The posted hand is, in my opinion, a GF hand (despite only 11 hcp), so I would bid 1 spades and, if opener does not show extras, I will jump to 4H.

A possible auction:

1♥:1♠
2♦:4♥
4NT:5♥
?

Now close call, slam is on a finesse. Theoretically, a pass would be better, I think, but hard to stop the enthusiasm I guess... :-)

[EricK]

As an aside, both slams are theoretically slightly less than 50% on a double dummy basis, as you have certain Club loser, a finesse for the H King, and a possible ruff at trick one or two.

However, some of the time when the slam could be beaten, it won't be, because they don't find the ruff, or a club isn't led allowing you to discard your club losers on the spades.

So, how should one factor these imponderables into the decision to bid slam?

Eric

[Flame]

"
1♣ 1♠
2♥ 4♣
4NT 5♥
6♥
"
I am not a precision player, but it might be better to bid it 1h-1s-3d which show a
max with atleast 5-5.

[Flame]

sceptic, on Aug 6 2004, 12:39 AM, said:

I actually have a question on bens answer, I thought of bidding 1Heart 1spade, then I thought, why bid spades, I am under the impression as you can support hearts why look for another fit before showing your heart fit?

After 1heart you know you can make 4H, but you dont know if you can make a slam, the best way to investigate for slam is to let partner know about you nice spade suit.

[Chamaco]

Flame, on Aug 6 2004, 11:49 AM, said:

I am not a precision player, but it might be better to bid it 1h-1s-3d which show a
max with atleast 5-5.

Playing precision, 3D is - IMO - the very best call (= distributional reverse) because 1H is limited to max 15 hcp, no ambiguity on whether the reverse is a power-reverse or just distributional.

Not playing precision, however, I think it may easily mislead pard. Jump to 3D should show HIGH CARD POINTS, not only distribution. HCP should be at least 18, I guess with extreme distribution even a good 16 will do.
However, if you bid 3D on such a hand AND on the follwong hand

♠ x
♥ AQJT86
♦ KQJT5
♣ A

then pard will often misjudge best contract?

[mikestar]

On these cards I want to be in 6D at IMPS and 6H at MP. True the chance of a ruff reduces the theoretical odds to under 50%, but at least some of the time West will talk himself into not leading a club, then your club loser goes away on a high spade before you take the heart hook for the overtrick.

For Precision players it should go 1H-1S-3D and now responder should drive to slam with his excellent controls and double fit. I'd bid 4NT (simple Blackwood) if we're not playing keycard here. No need for delicate investigation, a grand is out of the question in this precision sequence.

[inquiry]

Ok.. this is in beginner section, so I will leave precision auctions to others. Let's stick with good old fashion SAYC or 2/1.

The first question I guess I overlooked is the one should north raise directly or bid spades. The direct raise is good on weak hands. Invintational or game forcing hands this is not a good option. North has 11 hcp and a singleton, which is worth 3 pts for somewhere aroudn 14 points. In addition, AK A is probably under-evaluated at 11 hcp. So this is a game forcing hand opposite an sayc 1H opening bid.

To raise directly you would need a game forcing raise or a splinter. But with a good side five card suit, it is much better to show the suit, so the first response should be 1S.

So.. 1H - 1S, so far is clear.

Next the question becomes rebid. As south, partner's 1S bid did not improve your hand at all. Howevrer, you do have a very nice hand indeed. Both your suits are solid enough to play opposite small cards in partners hand. Add to that, you have only four losers. No one mentioned the possibility of a leap to 3[dii], but that is probably because they are counting hcp instead of tricks. This is a powerful hand that can probably win 9 tricks all by itself (losing maximum 1H, 1D, 2C). If EVER you were going to jump shift rebid with a 13 hcp hand, this is the one. I think I would rebid 3♦ if I held this hand (with 6/5 come alive)... And after a 3♦ rebid, there will be no way to stay out of the roughly 50% slam. But since the field (responders above) decide to rebid only 2♦, let;s join the bean counters and only rebid 2♦ (if south's clubs and spades were reversed, over 1♠ I am sure there would have been more choosing the 3♦ rebid.)

So, we have an auctio that now looks like this...

1♥ - 1♠
2♦ - ?

What is north to rebid? 1) he has game forcing values, so he needs to show that, 2) he fits for both red suits, 3) his game forcing values are minimum.

This eliminates 2♥, as that can be passed. For most people a jump to 3♥ here can be passed as well. The clever jump to 4♣ as a splinter is works well, but the question becomes is it a splinter with ♥ support or with ♦ support. If you ahve a firm agreement about which suit this splinter shows support for, by all means use that. Here I would use the old standby, 3♣ fourth suit forcing. With the idea that I can show support for hearts and minimum game forcing value on the next round of bidding... so it is

1♥ - 1♠
2♦ - 3♣
?

As south, having resisted the urge to jump to 3♦ I will not rebid a tame 3♦ or 3♥ now. I want to show the playing stregnth of my hand, and the way to do that is a leap to 4♦ over 3♣. Nothing else will do, somewhere in here I HAVE TO SHOW the trick taking potential of this moster two suiter. Over the jump to 4♦, north is happy with his hand. The black suits are well controlled. The diamond fitting honor is great. The problem? The weakness of the heart suit. OVer 4♦, notrht might try a number of things. Bidding just 4♥, after all he bid 4th suit forcig, so this has to be game strength values and heart fit, exactly what he has. Or he can jump to 5♥ if that means, as it probably would, bid slam with good hearts (which south has). I favor the 5♥ jump I think with this hand.

1♥ - 1♠
2♦ - 3♣
4♦ - 5♥
6♥

(note instead of 6♥, south could bid 5NT - pick a slam, and NS might get into 6♦. Bid the slam or not, it roughly equal chance to make or not, so full credit for bidding just game or just slam.. you will have been right about half the time).

Ben

[Chamaco]

inquiry, on Aug 6 2004, 01:32 PM, said:

(note instead of 6♥, south could bid 5NT - pick a slam, and NS might get into 6♦.

After finding the major fit, would not 5NT be a Grand Slam Force rather than pick-a-slam ?

[inquiry]

Chamaco, on Aug 6 2004, 09:38 AM, said:

inquiry, on Aug 6 2004, 01:32 PM, said:

(note instead of 6♥, south could bid 5NT - pick a slam, and NS might get into 6♦.

After finding the major fit, would not 5NT be a Grand Slam Force rather than pick-a-slam ?

Opener rebid only 2D (weak hand), responder showed slam interest only if opener had great hearts... Both partners have showed willinginess not to bid on. So, no, 5NT can not be logically grand slam force. Sometime bridge logic applies...

Now change the auction to this....

1h-2C (2C =2/1 g/f)
2D-2S
4D-5H
5NT

Here, 2D is not minimum showing, so 5NT would be very risky as pick a slam, and I would play it as GSF. To ensure nice pick slam option, I would rebid 6D and hope partner works out the right red suit. But in the auction on the given hand starting 1S, 6D should show longer diamonds than five, so I would stick with the 5NT bid if I wanted to offer a choice.

Ben