[matmat]

QTxx
---
JT98xxx
AK

p opens 1♥, opps remain silent.

you are playing 2/1, 3♦ is not discussed as an invit. jump.

what is your response? if it is 1♠, would you have chosen the 3♦ gadget if it were available.

if you do bid 1♠, p continues with 2♥. do you bid on? if so, how?

[jillybean]

1nt, planning to bid some number of ♦'s over 2♣

[mike777]

matmat, on Jul 10 2010, 12:50 AM, said:

QTxx
---
JT98xxx
AK

p opens 1♥, opps remain silent.

you are playing 2/1, 3♦ is not discussed as an invit. jump.

what is your response? if it is 1♠, would you have chosen the 3♦ gadget if it were available.

if you do bid 1♠, p continues with 2♥. do you bid on? if so, how?

1s undiscussed

now 3d undiscussed...

1h=1s
2h=3d?


-------------

to discuss is really to talk about entire sys....not just one bid....hourS AND HOURS OF DISCUSSION....
------------


FOR ME IT SHOWS THIS HAND, really even more....NEXT

-----------

I dont have a way to show 4s and long weak d...here.(unless rare xyz..not here)

[Fluffy]

forgetting spades works nicely on this kind of deal. 3♦ or 1NT

[vang]

at the table, you don't know in advance partner will bid 2H, so forgetting spades is harder.

3D is dubious with 90% of points outside suit.

i think i'll bid an ugly 1S ... 2NT.

[MarkDean]

This hand type is a tough one. Even if 3♦ I would not bid it with a topless suit and a fair amount of stuff outside. I would bid 1♠ and hope for the best, which I agree is kind of sick. Over 2♥, I would try 2NT.

[kfay]

1♠... pass

[y66]

I'll take MarkDean's route even if we're playing 1H-3D as invitational.

[jjbrr]

fwiw partner should respond 2♦(!) to 1♠

2000th post!

[JLOGIC]

At imps I would just bid 2D and take my chances. Obviously this could get us (ridiculously) high a lot of times but if we have a diamond game/slam it might be the only way to get diamonds into the picture, and playing 2N on the auction 1H-1S-2C-2N-p will not be that much worse than playing 3N.

Seriously could anyone stomach 1H-1S-2H-p at imps knowing you might be cold for as many as 6D or definitely 5D opposite some stupid hands.

At MP I'd be willing to bid 1S and take my chances with those 2 auctions.

[dburn]

No idea what the percentage action is. Would go with JL and bid 2♦, hoping for the best whilst fearing (as usual) for the worst.

Good convention, Flannery. Wonder why no one plays it.

[Siegmund]

I am not at all happy with 3Dinv if it's available immediately; I would bid 1S first if 2D was GF. 1H-1S-2H is about the only auction that doesn't offer us an alternative (1H-1S-1NT or 2C-3D). I am sympathetic to stretching to bid 2D immediately. I am not at all sympathetic to anyone starting with 1NT.

Of course I play more MP than IMP, and have been a MAFIA devotee for a good ten years now

[JLOGIC]

dburn, on Jul 10 2010, 03:43 PM, said:

Good convention, Flannery. Wonder why no one plays it.

In the US team trials no less than 11 pairs played flannery. These were:

-Levin-Weinstein
-Martel-Stansby

They're pretty good...in fact they won the event!

-Hamman-Zia

They're pretty good.

-Boyd-Robinson* (they played 2H flannery, not 2D flannery, but I'm counting them)

They won the event last time.

-Blanchard-Blanchard
-Shi-Gu
-Chorush-Koneru
-Wickham-Miller
-Schuett-Bruno
-Demirev-Watson
-Bart-Bart

Additionally, a lot of pairs used strong club with precision 2D. I'm sure some of these people (for instance Bramley, the biggest flannery fan in the world, or myself) would play flannery in a standard type system.

A lot of people also were playing multi. It wouldn't surprise me to learn that flannery was the most common use of the 2D opener in the event, it must be up there with weak 2D and precision 2D and multi. But probably weak 2D was still the most common.

For some reason flannery gets a lot of hate on this forum but it's pretty popular with both experts and non experts in USA.

I think in other parts of the world it is very uncommon though, where multi is more prevalent and some other uses like weak with the majors are popular also.

[pooltuna]

dburn, on Jul 10 2010, 03:43 PM, said:

No idea what the percentage action is. Would go with JL and bid 2♦, hoping for the best whilst fearing (as usual) for the worst.

Good convention, Flannery. Wonder why no one plays it.

my speculation is that they don't play it because they don't look beyond the 2♦ call itself and do not see the system impacts of the call not having being made

[whereagles]

I'll bury the spades and bid 1NT. Intend to follow up with some convenient nr. of diamonds.

[whereagles]

dburn, on Jul 10 2010, 08:43 PM, said:

Good convention, Flannery. Wonder why no one plays it.

Hmmm.. could it perhaps be because you lose one of the most effective preemptive bids in the game, a weak 2♦, to cater for a 54 hand that comes up like 0.1% of the time, which can even be dealt with with some half-decent judgement?

Really, Flannery is, in my opinion, a completely outdated tool of constructive bidding whose trade-offs are negative in the long run. These days everybody opens weak 2s on 5 cards, with side majors or voids, opens 4M on hands that are very wide-spread in strength, etc. In this context Flannery is just a waste of a bid.

[CSGibson]

How the heck is 2♦ considered one of the most effective preemptive bids? After I make a take-out double, partner can sift through: 8 or fewer points with bids in hearts or spades or clubs; 9-11 points with clubs; 9-11 points with 4 hearts, 4 spades, 5 hearts, or 5 spades; all power game forces & distributional hands that want to be in game. I can also describe powerful two-suiters, all of my one-suiters of varying strengths, and even hands with running sources of tricks that need a diamond stopper for NT. I probably have more accurate auctions after weak 2♦ openers than I would if it were uncontested.

[whereagles]

Gibson, the point is a defender may need to double 2♦ with 43 majors. If his pard happens to have only a 4-card major or both majors but a weak hand, he may end up in the 4-3 fit. Trust me on this. It happened with me and against me over and over.