[Fluffy]

I find banning memory aids a mistake, after all there is no way to control it.

Sing up Fluffy-Codo

[Hanoi5]

This is for fun, no doubt, but it is definitely unfair if some people can use 'help' and some can't. By using memory aids, system notes, etc the pair would not be competing at the same level as everyone else, therefore I would not mind a pair using any aid of this type (notes, memory aids) as long as they do it without consulting each other or others and they have a handicap of 20% or 25%, i.e. if they get a 10 it would become an 8 or 7.5 for comparisons purposes.

Of course most people would have to agree to this, especially Inquiry.

Edit (after reading Fluffy's post): It is true cheating can't be 'checked'. But everyone knows it is not good, and a pair who takes too long to bid the hands (I believe 1 to 3 minutes should be enough) will begin to look suspicious.

[hanp]

I don't like the handicap idea, either allow notes or don't allow notes. I don't have strong feelings on the matter, but since Justin and I have no notes...

I agree with gnasher and co, cheating won't be an issue. (pretty rare for a teacher to say this)

[gnasher]

inquiry, on Jul 9 2010, 09:22 PM, said:

4. The scoring will be by estimated international matchpoints,

Does this mean IMPs ("International Match Points"), or what is commonly known as "matchpoints".

[inquiry]

gnasher, on Jul 15 2010, 10:33 AM, said:

inquiry, on Jul 9 2010, 09:22 PM, said:

4. The scoring will be by estimated international matchpoints,

Does this mean IMPs ("International Match Points"), or what is commonly known as "matchpoints".

Matchpoints... 1 point for every estimated pair your contract beats, 1/2 point for every pair you contract ties....

[TimG]

inquiry, on Jul 15 2010, 11:15 AM, said:

gnasher, on Jul 15 2010, 10:33 AM, said:

inquiry, on Jul 9 2010, 09:22 PM, said:

4. The scoring will be by estimated international matchpoints,

Does this mean IMPs ("International Match Points"), or what is commonly known as "matchpoints".

Matchpoints... 1 point for every estimated pair your contract beats, 1/2 point for every pair you contract ties....

Will you be matchpointing against the other participants, or will you be assigning a score on a fixed scale?

[Hanoi5]

'Fixed' scale. It may be open to discussion but it won't be dependent on other participants results only. (Or maybe even).

[Codo]

I would allow memory aids for the good reasons Richard, Frederick and Gonzalo posted.
Yes, IF you play serious bridge, memory aids are not allowed.
But this is a bidding contest, online, for fun with some not established partnerships. Whsy should we enforce these partnerships to memorize a system?

[hrothgar]

Free, on Jul 15 2010, 04:47 PM, said:

I thought this was for fun, so digging up MOSCITO would fit the picture.

If no memory aids are allowed, it's pretty useless we try MOSCITO as we both will have to learn the entire system again, and we both don't have the time for this.

Richard and I express our request to allow memory aids.  For everyone or only for us as an exception, whatever.  But I ask you to reconsider this decision.

Any chance that we could get a decision on this?

If memory aids are (definitely) not permitted, I suspect that we're going to drop out.

Even if memory aides are permitted, I'm going to need to spend a lot of time/effort learning a new system variant and I'd prefer to know sooner rather than later.

(Quite honestly, I suspect that this won't matter much... I don't expect that MOSCITO to score particularly well given the Conditions of Contest, but such is life)

BTW, anyone want to set up a side bet regarding how many 5-5 hand types suitable for a MISERY preempt get seeded into the set of hands?

[hanp]

I bet there will be fewer than I think you think.

Ben will need so many hands, he would be crazy to cook up hands to advertise his own system interests. He'll probably use bridgebrowser in some clever way to search for interesting bidding problems.

Once again, I have no problem with memory aids for those who are not willing or able to learn their own system.

[Free]

hanp, on Jul 16 2010, 03:36 PM, said:

I bet there will be fewer than I think you think.

Maybe you think Richard is thinking way more hands than he's actually thinking about

[bluecalm]

I wonder how contracts will be scored.
For example if you bid game which depends on first lead, what score will be assigned ?

I find scoring hands in MP's instead of IMPs is very difficult. I wonder how it will work out.

[inquiry]

bluecalm, on Jul 16 2010, 09:48 AM, said:

I wonder how contracts will be scored.
For example if you bid game which depends on first lead, what score will be assigned ?

I find scoring hands in MP's instead of IMPs is very difficult. I wonder how it will work out.

They are all scored Matchpoints.

The actual NS hands you see when you bid are not imporrtant. Unlike a bidding contest where EW are given hands writtten on paper, using the program we HAVE to have 13 cards given to both north and south to the computer display the EW hands. Thus, when you finish bidding, you will "see" the NS hands (natural reaction) to see how you did.

Don't do that. Look at your hands and ask yourself, is this the contract I want to be playing. The NS bidding will affect this decision of course. If your RHO opened, and they have only 11 hcp, you can assume all the hcp are with RHO and if that makes increases chances your contract will make great, by all means that will be taken into account.

The scores will be (have been) assigned by me before the bidding began. I am sure that with 3 to 6 contracts getting scores that vary from a high of 11 or so to a low of 1 (other contracts not listed get a zero), there will be disagreement... I hope those take the form of useful discussions here in the forum rather than anger.

[bluecalm]

Hmm so you can tell me our score now right ?

[TimG]

inquiry, on Jul 16 2010, 10:27 AM, said:

The scores will be (have been) assigned by me before the bidding began. I am sure that with 3 to 6 contracts getting scores that vary from a high of 11 or so to a low of 1 (other contracts not listed get a zero), there will be disagreement... I hope those take the form of useful discussions here in the forum rather than anger.

Disputed results could be settled by playing the hand a few hundred times (double dummy or single dummy) and seeing how various contracts score.

[bluecalm]

I wonder how well a pair need to perform to qualify.
We made 2 judgement errors which lead to suboptimal results and one huge systemic error which led to major disaster.
Any comments from other participants ? (without specific bid hands of course).

[TylerE]

Well, everyone gets through the first round since it's double elim.

[hrothgar]

hrothgar, on Jul 16 2010, 05:15 PM, said:

Free, on Jul 15 2010, 04:47 PM, said:

I thought this was for fun, so digging up MOSCITO would fit the picture.

If no memory aids are allowed, it's pretty useless we try MOSCITO as we both will have to learn the entire system again, and we both don't have the time for this.

Richard and I express our request to allow memory aids.  For everyone or only for us as an exception, whatever.  But I ask you to reconsider this decision.

Any chance that we could get a decision on this?

If memory aids are (definitely) not permitted, I suspect that we're going to drop out.

Even if memory aides are permitted, I'm going to need to spend a lot of time/effort learning a new system variant and I'd prefer to know sooner rather than later.

(Quite honestly, I suspect that this won't matter much... I don't expect that MOSCITO to score particularly well given the Conditions of Contest, but such is life)

BTW, anyone want to set up a side bet regarding how many 5-5 hand types suitable for a MISERY preempt get seeded into the set of hands?

Looks like Free and I are dropping out.

I have a life and don't have time to memorize a new bidding system.
Its not worth while to enter and do a half-assed job

Would have been fun.

(For what its worth, I think that the decision to bar memory aides is asinine, but I'll respect the Conditions of Contest)

[TimG]

hrothgar, on Jul 16 2010, 05:15 PM, said:

(For what its worth, I think that the decision to bar memory aides is asinine, but I'll respect the Conditions of Contest)

To me, it depends upon what the objective of the contest is. I'd be happy to see you compete with memory aids, but I'd like an '*' next to your result.

[JLOGIC]

Sorry you can't participate Richard. I think it's a little strong to say that it's an asinine decision to not allow memory aids though. A big part of bidding is knowing your system.

If there were memory aids allowed, I would just play ultimate club (I think that's the system that won challenge the champs like 10 times in a row so they had to change the format?).

Part of the tournament would then be who has the best documented system. If every bid can be defined then defining the most auctions in the best theoretical manner would be a huge edge. I don't think a good pair would be beatable ever in that format.

Also, IMO, how good a system is includes how hard is it to remember. There are a lot of auctions that can be optimized theoretically imo that aren't because there's a finite amount of memory that people have.

It seems like memory aids would turn it more into a "who has the best documented system, and which system is the best" competition. That kind of competition has merit but it's not what I think of when I think of a bidding competition.

Anyways, hopefully you can understand this point of view, I don't think the intention was ever to exclude you.

IMO allowing vs not allowing memory aids just creates 2 different types of competitions, both of them have merit but they're different, and typically no memory aids are allowed in stuff like this since it's trying to simulate real at-the-table bidding. That's not to say this way is better or worse though, but it's the way I prefer (which is why I voted against memory aids).